Red Mosquito

If not voting or voting third party is just voting for Trump, then just skip the middle man and vote for Trump!

exactly

just shit or get off the pot

Most of the belief that Trump is some unique existential threat is from Trump Derangement Syndrome, a very serious illness.

The two party system is far more dangerous and is creating worse and worse candidates (Like trump), and voting is a tacit support for it.

Thus, you should stay home. This country needs an enema, not a return to normalcy!

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

BurtReynolds wrote:Most of the belief that Trump is some unique existential threat is from Trump Derangement Syndrome, a very serious illness.

The two party system is far more dangerous and is creating worse and worse candidates (Like trump), and voting is a tacit support for it.

Thus, you should stay home. This country needs an enema, not a return to normalcy!

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

I am all over this. Where is Gary Johnson when we need him?

Bammer wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Most of the belief that Trump is some unique existential threat is from Trump Derangement Syndrome, a very serious illness.

The two party system is far more dangerous and is creating worse and worse candidates (Like trump), and voting is a tacit support for it.

Thus, you should stay home. This country needs an enema, not a return to normalcy!

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

I am all over this. Where is Gary Johnson when we need him?

How dare you disrespect Jo Jorgensen in this manner.

Aaand, her twitter account is suspended. Probably something adjacent to promoting a vote for a third party candidate violates Twitters TOS.

simple schoolboy wrote:

Bammer wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Most of the belief that Trump is some unique existential threat is from Trump Derangement Syndrome, a very serious illness.

The two party system is far more dangerous and is creating worse and worse candidates (Like trump), and voting is a tacit support for it.

Thus, you should stay home. This country needs an enema, not a return to normalcy!

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

I am all over this. Where is Gary Johnson when we need him?

How dare you disrespect Jo Jorgensen in this manner.

Aaand, her twitter account is suspended. Probably something adjacent to promoting a vote for a third party candidate violates Twitters TOS.

Never heard of him

I saw a Jorgensen sign by the road today. Bless her heart.

Bammer wrote:

simple schoolboy wrote:

Bammer wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Most of the belief that Trump is some unique existential threat is from Trump Derangement Syndrome, a very serious illness.

The two party system is far more dangerous and is creating worse and worse candidates (Like trump), and voting is a tacit support for it.

Thus, you should stay home. This country needs an enema, not a return to normalcy!

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

I am all over this. Where is Gary Johnson when we need him?

How dare you disrespect Jo Jorgensen in this manner.

Aaand, her twitter account is suspended. Probably something adjacent to promoting a vote for a third party candidate violates Twitters TOS.

Never heard of him

I don't have the foggiest idea what she's about, but I'm pretty sure her running mate hasn't effectively endorsed the (D) candidate, unlike Bill Weld back in 2016.

Gary made some poor choices.

being a libertarian, for one

BurtReynolds wrote:Most of the belief that Trump is some unique existential threat is from Trump Derangement Syndrome, a very serious illness.

The two party system is far more dangerous and is creating worse and worse candidates (Like trump), and voting is a tacit support for it.

Thus, you should stay home. This country needs an enema, not a return to normalcy!

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

I am normally totally for a multi party system, ranked choice voting, and all the rest. But in a preidential election

A: the primary system is functionally a multi-party election prior to the general election
B: the presidency is the one office where a multi- party election is a largely irrelevant idea at best, a bad idea at worst. It further decreases the mandate of the winner by lowering the size of their support and decreases the probability of an electoral college victory- the winner would be chosen by the House of Representatives, which is even less small D democratic.
C: I am sure the family member I lost to COVID would be glad to know that two party system was the real killer. And I am glad to know that the real culprit behind the economic catastrophe that hit my town and the lost year of my children’s schooling is Trump Derangement Syndrome.

There is so much that is wrong with our system, but at this point the two party system is among the least of its worries, and to decide to support the racism, malignant incompetence, gross corruption and incipient fascism because you think it will lead to technical reforms of the democratic process is absurd.

If anything, given the current Democratic hostility towards the court structure, the electoral college, and the filibuster (all anti-democratic institutions) and a ranked choice system in Maine supported by Dems and opposed by Republicans, your best bet is to see Dems get elected and get some of the reforms that would nurture third parties some attention.

3rd parties exist. The problem is that no one gives a shit about them and supporters can fixate in them as a catch all solution to much deeper and wider problems (or as a way to express overlynconsequential purity/outrage votes, After they helped put Bush and Trump in office you’d think people would have had enough

stip wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Most of the belief that Trump is some unique existential threat is from Trump Derangement Syndrome, a very serious illness.

The two party system is far more dangerous and is creating worse and worse candidates (Like trump), and voting is a tacit support for it.

Thus, you should stay home. This country needs an enema, not a return to normalcy!

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

stip wrote: I am normally totally for a multi party system, ranked choice voting, and all the rest. But in a preidential election

A: the primary system is functionally a multi-party election prior to the general election

I should say first that our problems are much bigger than just the fact that we have only two real parties (I don't treat democracy as the sacred cow most do, though). The two parties and their controllers have immense power over the process, and its actually worse in the Democratic party than the Republican one. They play gatekeeper, allowing only party approved candidates to win, with the bizarre and perhaps one time exception of Trump, who bashed the door in. They won't let that happen again.

stip wrote: B: the presidency is the one office where a multi- party election is a largely irrelevant idea at best, a bad idea at worst. It further decreases the mandate of the winner by lowering the size of their support and decreases the probability of an electoral college victory- the winner would be chosen by the House of Representatives, which is even less small D democratic.

*shrugs*

stip wrote: C: I am sure the family member I lost to COVID would be glad to know that two party system was the real killer. And I am glad to know that the real culprit behind the economic catastrophe that hit my town and the lost year of my children’s schooling is Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Without commenting on the specifics of your personal case, I've said before that this would almost certainly have played out more or less the same regardless of who was president. We don't like being told what to do. And be sure and point out the western country that successfully stopped covid at the border.

The economic catastrophe hitting small towns across the country started long before Trump and will continue long after he is in the grave. This has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with much larger systemic problems (that includes the two party system). This is in fact what people are trying to change when they reject Biden and Trump.

stip wrote: There is so much that is wrong with our system, but at this point the two party system is among the least of its worries, and to decide to support the racism, malignant incompetence, gross corruption and incipient fascism because you think it will lead to technical reforms of the democratic process is absurd.

yeah yeah fascist racist blah blah blah. That's the TDS talking.

stip wrote:If anything, given the current Democratic hostility towards the court structure, the electoral college, and the filibuster (all anti-democratic institutions) and a ranked choice system in Maine supported by Dems and opposed by Republicans, your best bet is to see Dems get elected and get some of the reforms that would nurture third parties some attention.

Excluding ranked choice voting, I don't think the other things would lead to 3rd parties getting more attention.

And protecting minorities against majorities is anti-democratic, but that isn't inherently wrong. It's mostly political power games, though.

stip wrote:3rd parties exist. The problem is that no one gives a shit about them and supporters can fixate in them as a catch all solution to much deeper and wider problems (or as a way to express overly consequential purity/outrage votes, After they helped put Bush and Trump in office you’d think people would have had enough

I don't have any particular love for 3rd parties, but its pointless (and annoying) to whine about people voting 3rd party. Many people (I think rightly) believe that Trump (who could likely be dead before he ends his second term) isn't the catastrophic threat that he is made out to be by the media, and are looking farther into the future than this election, and hoping to force the Democrats to nominate someone that actually represents them, similar to how conservatives rejected Republicans until they found someone who actually reflects their beliefs. The System™ can withstand Trump's buffoonery. But, to put on my political nihilist hat, The System™ can withstand anything that gets thrown at it, so... do whatever you want.

counterpoint to my argument:

Today I learned: that there actually are other parties you can vote for in the US.

I get the concept of not voting for anyone at all, but surely that only works if everyone does it and the government has no option but to make drastic change. As it is right now, you don't vote, you vote for Trump.

And 3rd parties are great and all, but no way in your system as it is are they gonna have any chance of any sort of power. Again, a vote for Trump.

I agree, your system is shit.

BurtReynolds wrote:

stip wrote:3rd parties exist. The problem is that no one gives a shit about them and supporters can fixate in them as a catch all solution to much deeper and wider problems (or as a way to express overly consequential purity/outrage votes, After they helped put Bush and Trump in office you’d think people would have had enough

I don't have any particular love for 3rd parties, but its pointless (and annoying) to whine about people voting 3rd party. Many people (I think rightly) believe that Trump (who could likely be dead before he ends his second term) isn't the catastrophic threat that he is made out to be by the media, and are looking farther into the future than this election, and hoping to force the Democrats to nominate someone that actually represents them, similar to how conservatives rejected Republicans until they found someone who actually reflects their beliefs. The System™ can withstand Trump's buffoonery. But, to put on my political nihilist hat, The System™ can withstand anything that gets thrown at it, so... do whatever you want.

As a person who voted for Nader in 2000, I have a very hard time demonizing 3rd party voters. This year, in particular, I would beg them to reconsider, but I can't blame them for voting their conscience.

In 2000, I couldn't see (nor could a lot of people) how Bush would do a lot more than just sit in his office and pick his nose for 4 years. Gore didn't make a tremendous case for how he would be much different than that. Nader did.

Gore didn't get my vote, and in Ohio, that didn't make a big difference, but all of the down ballot Democrats DID get my vote. If you have to vote third party, I wish you wouldn't, but I'm still going to cheer you on for going to the polls.

BurtReynolds wrote: Thus, you should stay home. This country needs an enema, not a return to normalcy!

Yet as soon as people show up who don't want normalcy, it's all "help help, scary people are in the streets!"

Trump's down to 18 chances in 100 at fivethirtyeight.

B wrote:Trump's down to 18 chances in 100 at fivethirtyeight.

B wrote:Trump's down to 18 chances in 100 at fivethirtyeight.