Red Mosquito

I don't think this is a spoiler - but all the original cast are really giving excellent performances in these new movies - quite possibly their best

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Leia was something of a non presence in TFA, but she really shines here

stip wrote:I don't think this is a spoiler - but all the original cast are really giving excellent performances in these new movies - quite possibly their best

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Leia was something of a non presence in TFA, but she really shines here

Mark and Carrie brought it 100%. Everyone did. I even loved Dern and her character and she was the one casting I was most resistant to.

BdT, I dunno.

Bdt?

Dime where are you on this after (3?) viewings? I've got my second in about 7 hours

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:Hey stip!

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I liked the sublte clues that Luke wasn't what he seemed on Crait. Did you notice how he appeared as the slightly younger version of himself that appeared in the Ben back story? And the emphasis of the red patterns made by Kylo's feet, whereas Luke's made no impression?

I agree with your phasma theory.
We saw her dramatic fall, but never the landing or a dead body.
Maybe she'll finally have more depth and substance in the final chapter. I feel she's been quite 2 dimensional up til now.

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I did miss the salt patterns. I did notice he looked younger and at first I thought he was renewed. Honestly part of me thought he maybe just resisted the barrage and they were giving him an epic hero send off.
The way it actually played out was so much better


I don't need Phasma to have more depth. She can just be an evil badass who likes being an evil badass, as she's not a primary antagonist. I just want her to have more screentime. I thought she was used really well here for what she is (a Bond henchman)

stip wrote:Dime where are you on this after (3?) viewings? I've got my second in about 7 hours

Benicio del toro.

In short I hated it my first viewing. Saw it a second time samexnight and once the shock and awe are absorbed I really liked it.

Had my third viewing last night and I loved it


I have no way to frame it or rank it it’s way too early for that but it blows up what we think is Star Wars and recreates it as even better Star Wars. Stuff we’ve never seen like

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new force powers, the. The suicide shot and explosion and on and on.

all that is amazing. Shakes Star Wars up completely and it’s amazing


I cannot wait to have the final act and we see how these three sit together.

stip wrote:

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Yoda's 'We are what they grow beyond.' was a magnificent line

I almost got teary at this moment. It was perfect.

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Someone mentioned the books in the drawer at the end. I noticed that too, so now I'm confused. Did Rey steal them before she left the island?

BootsToAsses wrote:

stip wrote:

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Yoda's 'We are what they grow beyond.' was a magnificent line

I almost got teary at this moment. It was perfect.

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Someone mentioned the books in the drawer at the end. I noticed that too, so now I'm confused. Did Rey steal them before she left the island?

Yes

God I want more. I can’t wait to see this again

BootsToAsses wrote:

stip wrote:

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Yoda's 'We are what they grow beyond.' was a magnificent line

I almost got teary at this moment. It was perfect.

Spoiler: show

Someone mentioned the books in the drawer at the end. I noticed that too, so now I'm confused. Did Rey steal them before she left the island?

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Yes. They are in the same drawer in the Falcon Finn pulled the blanket from.

BootsToAsses wrote:

stip wrote:

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Yoda's 'We are what they grow beyond.' was a magnificent line

I almost got teary at this moment. It was perfect.

Spoiler: show

Someone mentioned the books in the drawer at the end. I noticed that too, so now I'm confused. Did Rey steal them before she left the island?

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she stole them. Yoda says ‘she already posses all she needs to know’ but he’s not talking about the books rather about her and what’s inside her. The books are in a final shit when Finn opens the drawer on the falcon to get a blanket they’re all right there right in front of the shot.

Anders wrote:

stip wrote:

Anders wrote:I will probably end up seeing it ten times (over many years, I’m just a sucker for Star Wars).

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Obviously Mark Hamill is amazing, and a terribly underrated actor. I wanted a different story for Luke, at least to leave the planet. But I accept it for what it was.

There is too much to go over with the rest. But I feel like I could pick it apart scene after scene. With the New Order never catching up to the rebels, Snoke just ending with no story, so many of the scenes being holograms, Poe’s failed plan and mutiny, Rey being set up to be some poor girl with a big heart and no backstory, Leia with Jedi powers in space, so many silly comedy moments, that it felt a lot like the prequels, and much more.

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I think everything you just mentioned there (with the exception of Leia in space) was a strength, and really well and subtly written. This is a much more challenging story, and almost all the characters play against their story archtype while still having rational motivations. I look forward to arguing about this with you in the morning

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Where does Rey get her powers from? No training and she is as powerful as the most powerful Jedi we know of? Doesn't make any sense to me. Are you really telling me that there is nothing else The New Order could have done to catch the rebels? How about the rebel ship having an amazing shield, but the much more impressive dreadnought didn't seem to have any. It was attacked by a single ship, and there wasn't nothing they could do. Luke grew as a person and character, and carried the first three films. Now he's back to being someone Yoda has to yell at. The whole Snoke subplot should be impossible to defend. It was really terrible. No background, just some evil lord that built the New Order. Now he's dead. Rey and Kylo killed the guards, but now they are sworn enemies again.

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Gonna go point by point here

Where does Rey get her powers from? No training and she is as powerful as the most powerful Jedi we know of?


Where did Palpatine get his powers from? Yoda? She is incredibly powerful in the force, and you can be without being a skywalker/chosen one. Narratively this works - her power is raw and channeled, but it's there


. Are you really telling me that there is nothing else The New Order could have done to catch the rebels?

I believe that a smaller, faster ship could outrun those massive First Order (their name still sucks) ships - and that the lasers lose power over distance. Capital ship combat in Star wars has always been close. It's consistent. And since The First Order was confident they had them trapped they just dragged it out. Seemed consistent


How about the rebel ship having an amazing shield, but the much more impressive dreadnought didn't seem to have any. It was attacked by a single ship, and there wasn't nothing they could do.

It was a ship laden with explosives that seemed to attack a vulnerable area. Also, didn't they knock out the shield or defenses or something? The way shields work in star wars in general is inconsistent, and has always played second fiddle to the spectacle. Maybe it was down because they had launched fighters?

Luke grew as a person and character, and carried the first three films. Now he's back to being someone Yoda has to yell at.

this was a common (and I think misguided critique leveled at Han in the TFA - that character change is only something that happens in a forward direction. Both Han and Luke confronted heart wrenching failures, and they both gave up (as people do in the face of tragedy), and then ultimatley managed to renew their heroism and commitment through their growth in the new movies. Luke's self doubt makes complete sense, as does him still receiving wisdom from his teacher Luke was never omniscient or all wise. In fact, one of the major themes in the movie was that there is a difference between a legend (the story we tell ourselves of a thing) and the reality of the person behind the legend (the thing itself). Luke was always imperfect. It's just that one of his biggest gambles ended up paying off (the Vader conversion). And I love that it didn't for Kylo

The whole Snoke subplot should be impossible to defend. It was really terrible. No background, just some evil lord that built the New Order. Now he's dead.
Some things don't need backstories. It's a big galaxy and when you explain everything you rob it of its mystery. It was the central crime of the prequels (we didn't need to see the clone wars or vader's fall. the galaxy felt bigger knowing that these things happened but we weren't familiar with the details. We didn't need to know where palpetine came from (and we didn't until the prequels). He was just an emperor, and then he died. This is not Snoke's story. His narrative function is to serve as an evil malevolent force who shapes our principle protaganist. I like that we don't know who he is or where we came from. It enables him to be mysterious, and the story doesn't suffer for it.

Rey and Kylo killed the guards, but now they are sworn enemies again

This was so well done. They shared similar goals (killing Snoke) and each thought the other was supporting it for the right reason. Rey because Kylo could be redeemed, and Kylo because he thought Rey was a lost soul like him looking for a place. And when they realized they don't share those goals and that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend, they opposed each other once again. I think that all worked great, and was a nice inversion of the more obvious direction I thought the story was going

Strat wrote:

BootsToAsses wrote:

stip wrote:

Spoiler: show

Yoda's 'We are what they grow beyond.' was a magnificent line

I almost got teary at this moment. It was perfect.

Spoiler: show

Someone mentioned the books in the drawer at the end. I noticed that too, so now I'm confused. Did Rey steal them before she left the island?

Yes

God I want more. I can’t wait to see this again

where did you land on this, strat?

BootsToAsses wrote:

stip wrote:

Spoiler: show

Yoda's 'We are what they grow beyond.' was a magnificent line

I almost got teary at this moment. It was perfect.

Spoiler: show

Someone mentioned the books in the drawer at the end. I noticed that too, so now I'm confused. Did Rey steal them before she left the island?

Spoiler: show

I'm a parent and a teacher (or used to be) so this hit me twice

A few more thoughts

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I hated the beginning..the scene with Poe and Hux?? wtf? he is buying time with a joke? it felt like Spaceballs. Pretty much a lot of the humor made here seemed like a parody of a SW film. The scene with Luke and the monster´s milk...does Rian hate SW so much he needs to make fun of a beloved character that way? i hated that. I hated the whole Luke and Rey thing, ¨i wont help you¨ ¨yes, ill train you¨ ¨ nope go away¨...Poe is a great military leader? All his actions here are failures....Finn is taken into a non sense adventure we didnt needed. Snoke is dead? So why bother with his origins...Rey´s parents? yeah, we dont need to know that. Lazy, lazy.

VinylGuy wrote:A few more thoughts

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I hated the beginning..the scene with Poe and Hux?? wtf? he is buying time with a joke? it felt like Spaceballs. Pretty much a lot of the humor made here seemed like a parody of a SW film. The scene with Luke and the monster´s milk...does Rian hate SW so much he needs to make fun of a beloved character that way? i hated that. I hated the whole Luke and Rey thing, ¨i wont help you¨ ¨yes, ill train you¨ ¨ nope go away¨...Poe is a great military leader? All his actions here are failures....Finn is taken into a non sense adventure we didnt needed. Snoke is dead? So why bother with his origins...Rey´s parents? yeah, we dont need to know that. Lazy, lazy.

I think you’re looking at all of those the very wrong way.

Strat wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:A few more thoughts

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I hated the beginning..the scene with Poe and Hux?? wtf? he is buying time with a joke? it felt like Spaceballs. Pretty much a lot of the humor made here seemed like a parody of a SW film. The scene with Luke and the monster´s milk...does Rian hate SW so much he needs to make fun of a beloved character that way? i hated that. I hated the whole Luke and Rey thing, ¨i wont help you¨ ¨yes, ill train you¨ ¨ nope go away¨...Poe is a great military leader? All his actions here are failures....Finn is taken into a non sense adventure we didnt needed. Snoke is dead? So why bother with his origins...Rey´s parents? yeah, we dont need to know that. Lazy, lazy.

I think you’re looking at all of those the very wrong way.

why?

VinylGuy wrote:A few more thoughts

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I hated the beginning..the scene with Poe and Hux?? wtf? he is buying time with a joke? it felt like Spaceballs. Pretty much a lot of the humor made here seemed like a parody of a SW film. The scene with Luke and the monster´s milk...does Rian hate SW so much he needs to make fun of a beloved character that way? i hated that. I hated the whole Luke and Rey thing, ¨i wont help you¨ ¨yes, ill train you¨ ¨ nope go away¨...Poe is a great military leader? All his actions here are failures....Finn is taken into a non sense adventure we didnt needed. Snoke is dead? So why bother with his origins...Rey´s parents? yeah, we dont need to know that. Lazy, lazy.

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i thought the opening bit was funny, but Hux as a character can't afford to be the butt of that joke. The monster milk scene was good - it's really just luke doing a bunch of grinding monastic chores to express disinterest to Rey ('this is my life - glamorous, isn't it. You don't want this so fuck off.' Their whole dynamic worked really well for me. Luke was conflicted about taking on another student, so when he first agreed to train her his is really doing so to grind an axe. It's not unitl later that he comes around.


Poe was NOT a great military leader. That is the whole point of his story. He's an inspiring guy, and a great pilot, but he doesn't understand that the importance of an insurgency isn't to win. it is to survive. That's the message behind his final line the film (I think his final line). The 'we are the spark' bit. The point is to be the spark. The flame comes later

They didn't bother with Snoke's origins, right? And we did need to know Rey's origins - not to put internet rumors to bed (if that was the case we would have learned Snoke's origin, which we do not need to know, from a narrative perspective). But the fact that Rey came from nowhere is central to the major thematic through line of the movie.

Stip gets it.

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Star Wars is a story about growth. A bout figuring out your place in the galaxy and stepping into roles that you are uncomfortable with and rising to the challenge. This episode did a fantastic job at putting them all through the struggles necessary to become great leaders. Rian Jonson was not doing anything to make Poe seem like a great military leader and nothing in the story has alluded to such a thing. he is ag reat pilot and he is learning to be a militar leader.

Also, the opening was fantastic. He was a smart ass in TFA and that carried into TLJ. Nothing Space Balls about that. The only thing Space Balls about the movie was Lei flying through space and one shot where a fighter plane of sorts was landing and it looked like a giant Iron.

im tired of needing a backstory on every character. Its unnecessary. I love that Rey comes from nowhere. That is a much more powerful message and if she would have been of related bloodline to any character we already know...we all would have groaned about that and how tired and out of ideas star wars is. Rian Johnson gave a big fuck you to the internet rumor mill and I love it. I hope that story sticks.

stip wrote:

Strat wrote:

BootsToAsses wrote:

stip wrote:

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Yoda's 'We are what they grow beyond.' was a magnificent line

I almost got teary at this moment. It was perfect.

Spoiler: show

Someone mentioned the books in the drawer at the end. I noticed that too, so now I'm confused. Did Rey steal them before she left the island?

Yes

God I want more. I can’t wait to see this again

where did you land on this, strat?

Stip,

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Its settling into my bones and I fucking loved it.

Once I dropped my expectations of what I wanted to see from Luke, or know about Snoke, or where I wanted to see the story go....I realized I got the movie i didnt even know I wanted but needed.

Its wonderful.

For anyone who’s seen

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when Rey is following Luke up the hill and she’s suddenly hearing whispers and turns and sees the Tree. She’s hearing the same whispers Yoda hears in that mortis episode when he has that vision quest and the sisters appear to him. Sounded exactly like them. Also Reys cave vision. Totally replay but brilliant of Luke’s cave experience and Yodas vision on mortis quite sharply. They each end up facing themselves. Total poetry.