Red Mosquito

verb_to_trust wrote:Why can't we just have men's women's and trans sports? Everyone wins.

There aren't enough Trans people to accommodate leagues.

JuanHamm wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:Why can't we just have men's women's and trans sports? Everyone wins.

There aren't enough Trans people to accommodate leagues.

There aren't enough Trans athletes to impact sports.

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

He is, admittedly, difficult to listen to, but everything in that video hits me as a great way of thinking.

That was on the front page of reddit this morning, by pure coincidence, I didn't go digging that up.

I did sit through the first few of those you posted but it's just too much snarky and false equivalence. I havent watched this one but I assume he ties not being 100% on board with fringe trans rights back to slavery at some point?

Only to Brown vs. Board of Ed, when the whites were afraid of helpless white girls being forced to use the same bathroom as black girls.

These helpless white girls ...

B wrote:

JuanHamm wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:Why can't we just have men's women's and trans sports? Everyone wins.

There aren't enough Trans people to accommodate leagues.

There aren't enough Trans athletes to impact sports.

Is this a bit? Are you doing a bit here?

I don’t have a link, but there is a competitive weight lifter making his(?) (her?) (its?) way to the Olympics this year. Used to compete as a man, changed gender at age 35 and now competing against women.

Thoughts?

Nightmare scenario for all the anti-trans conservatives who have always been vehemently feminist.

B wrote:Nightmare scenario for all the anti-trans conservatives who have always been vehemently feminist.

Just because you're a hypocrite doesn't mean you're wrong.

JuanHamm wrote:

B wrote:Nightmare scenario for all the anti-trans conservatives who have always been vehemently feminist.

Just because you're a hypocrite doesn't mean you're wrong.

A hypocrite has to always be half right, don't they?

B wrote:

JuanHamm wrote:

B wrote:Nightmare scenario for all the anti-trans conservatives who have always been vehemently feminist.

Just because you're a hypocrite doesn't mean you're wrong.

A hypocrite has to always be half right, don't they?

No, you can have two wrong opinions about the same thing. Just look at the Democrats and Republicans.

Bammer wrote:I don’t have a link, but there is a competitive weight lifter making his(?) (her?) (its?) way to the Olympics this year. Used to compete as a man, changed gender at age 35 and now competing against women.

Thoughts?

I'm fine with this, for two reasons:

1.) The person in question meets the IOC criteria to participate, so they can participate. You don't change the rules to the game once it has started.

2.) This is a reasonable test case for the trans-exclusionary 'protect women's sports' movement. There are ample examples of men outperforming women in athletic competitions, that's not even under question in most places, but there aren't many examples of a trans person competing against world-class women athletes. No policy should be based on a single data point, so this isn't the defining moment in trans athletes history, but if society is willing to have this conversation it has to start somewhere.

Bi_3 wrote:

Bammer wrote:I don’t have a link, but there is a competitive weight lifter making his(?) (her?) (its?) way to the Olympics this year. Used to compete as a man, changed gender at age 35 and now competing against women.

Thoughts?

I'm fine with this, for two reasons:

1.) The person in question meets the IOC criteria to participate, so they can participate. You don't change the rules to the game once it has started.

2.) This is a reasonable test case for the trans-exclusionary 'protect women's sports' movement. There are ample examples of men outperforming women in athletic competitions, that's not even under question in most places, but there aren't many examples of a trans person competing against world-class women athletes. No policy should be based on a single data point, so this isn't the defining moment in trans athletes history, but if society is willing to have this conversation it has to start somewhere.

Are you saying this athlete will purposely tank their performance to illustrate that it’s no biggie for former men to compete against women?

At least refer to transgender women as "transgender women." Politics aside, pointedly calling them "men," sounds like a Southerner calling a Black man "boy."

B wrote:At least refer to transgender women as "transgender women." Politics aside, pointedly calling them "men," sounds like a Southerner calling a Black man "boy."

It's Ma'am!

Bammer wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Bammer wrote:I don’t have a link, but there is a competitive weight lifter making his(?) (her?) (its?) way to the Olympics this year. Used to compete as a man, changed gender at age 35 and now competing against women.

Thoughts?

I'm fine with this, for two reasons:

1.) The person in question meets the IOC criteria to participate, so they can participate. You don't change the rules to the game once it has started.

2.) This is a reasonable test case for the trans-exclusionary 'protect women's sports' movement. There are ample examples of men outperforming women in athletic competitions, that's not even under question in most places, but there aren't many examples of a trans person competing against world-class women athletes. No policy should be based on a single data point, so this isn't the defining moment in trans athletes history, but if society is willing to have this conversation it has to start somewhere.

Are you saying this athlete will purposely tank their performance to illustrate that it’s no biggie for former men to compete against women?

No, I assume they will engage in fair play, but I suppose anything is possible. I dont know if it would be better for the trans community to be the first trans medal winner or to lose and deny the TERFs their win. Interesting question though...

I don't think "Never Stop Exploring" delivers the message North Face means for it to deliver.

Bammer wrote:I don’t have a link, but there is a competitive weight lifter making his(?) (her?) (its?) way to the Olympics this year. Used to compete as a man, changed gender at age 35 and now competing against women.

Thoughts?

It shouldn't be allowed. She was a fairly average lifter pre-transition, and bone structure + muscle memory will definitely play a part. She might not win, but she still has an unfair advantage.

throwing "its" in there is pretty fucking transphobic, bammer

Norris wrote:throwing "its" in there is pretty fucking transphobic, bammer

Not being privy to their perferred personal pronouns, he was just covering most of his bases. Listing all possible pronouns would be a bit of a chore.

well if simple schoolboy doesn't think it's bigoted that's good enough for me

Mea culpa ... Bammer said "former men." I read his post wrong.