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Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 4:56 pm
by tree_
Rob wrote:tree is determined to find every single way someone can say "black people are responsible for overcoming the sins of our past, and are holding themselves down."
Wrong. I'm saying the prevailing narrative is too extreme and comically, tragically unrealistic.
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 5:29 pm
by tree_
Coleman Hughes said, not wrote:There is a deep assumption that is mistaken. That disparities are indicative of some kind of systemic bias... It basically comes down to a case of coverage bias. Which is to say, virtually every disparity at this point, whether it's in maternal mortality, or likelihood of working in the service sector, or wealth or incarceration, between black Americans and white Americans, will at some point end up in a NYT op-ed or somewhere else that many people will see and completely, understandably say "what is going on here, why can't we get different groups of people to not have different outcomes?" Instinctively it seems like there should be something we can do or some way at which we're failing... And then if you go looking, which most people are not inclined to do, for disparities between whites and Asians or different sub-ethnic groups of white people, Irish versus Polish, versus Italians, Jews, Catholics, you find disparities that are often just the same. And the truth is almost nobody looks for these. So, they might as well not be there. And of course the perpetual reason that the issue of race has always been special for blacks and whites as opposed to different ethnic groups is the very noticeable difference in appearance, skin color. And the special ease of attaching a stigma to black skin. Just the visibility of the difference. Where differences between other groups are often less visible and therefore harder to really cement.
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 5:59 pm
by Bi_3
Assuming this is a more generic thread now than just tree-trimming.
Why?
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 6:01 pm
by Mickey
TFW you know why.
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 6:06 pm
by tree_
Do you care to share your pelvic sensations with the class?
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 6:09 pm
by tree_
I would like to see graphs like these also depict different subsets of African-Americans and different subsets of white people
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 6:24 pm
by Mickey
Different... subsets?
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 6:30 pm
by tree_
Word
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 6:32 pm
by Mickey
Time to get the calipers out and do some real race science y'all.
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 6:46 pm
by Bi_3
Mickey wrote:TFW you know why.
It's a question with regard to possible solutioning... if hundreds of thousands of dollars in yearly income doesn't help, what will?
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 6:48 pm
by tree_
Mickey, are you ever going to say something of actual substance?
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 6:56 pm
by tree_
What about the Asians?
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 6:59 pm
by Bi_3
tree_ wrote:What about the Asians?
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 7:02 pm
by Peeps
Bi_3
if it helps i enjoy your posts and find they add to the conversation and in now way hold your "supporting cast" against you in any way, shape or form
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 7:32 pm
by Mickey
Bi_3 wrote:Mickey wrote:TFW you know why.
It's a question with regard to possible solutioning... if hundreds of thousands of dollars in yearly income doesn't help, what will?
So, I considered phrasing my post "...what do you mean, "why?," and perhaps I should have. I similarly don't know what the answer is, though I would try to hold apart two arguments, one being that racism is intimately tied to the class structure, and the other that black wealth will alleviate racism. The latter is absolutely false, as this graph shows (though it also illustrates that it does lessen the frequency, and most likely the intensity, of racist policing). The former is a little more nebulous.
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 7:37 pm
by Strat
Throwing money at black people is hardly going to scratch the surface on ending systemic racism and im not sure anyone is actually arguing that it would?
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 7:39 pm
by Mickey
Strat wrote:Throwing money at black people is hardly going to scratch the surface on ending systemic racism and im not sure anyone is actually arguing that it would?
I dunno, I think that's implicitly being argued through a variety of pro-capitalist black excellence messaging, i.e. Beyonce-stans and "the best revenge is your paper."
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 7:39 pm
by Strat
Mickey wrote:Strat wrote:Throwing money at black people is hardly going to scratch the surface on ending systemic racism and im not sure anyone is actually arguing that it would?
I dunno, I think that's implicitly being argued through a variety of pro-capitalist black excellence messaging, i.e. Beyonce-stans and "the best revenge is your paper."
Its a great step im sure, as a few pronged approach.
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 7:40 pm
by Strat
Actually it would probably just make matters worse as white peoples fragile ego's wont be able to get over the fact that there are now rich black people thanks to the government.
Re: tree_Maybe Wants to Talk About Systematic Racism in the
Posted: Fri June 19, 2020 7:43 pm
by Mickey
Strat wrote:Mickey wrote:Strat wrote:Throwing money at black people is hardly going to scratch the surface on ending systemic racism and im not sure anyone is actually arguing that it would?
I dunno, I think that's implicitly being argued through a variety of pro-capitalist black excellence messaging, i.e. Beyonce-stans and "the best revenge is your paper."
Its a great step im sure, as a few pronged approach.
I certainly don't think it hurts--blue line goes down down down as income goes up!--but there is a temptation to position it as "what we really need to " (or, "all we need to do"), in such a way that it distracts from the broader social reform necessary. So I actually really like that graph for both showing that it helps and that its insufficient.