Red Mosquito

Im a huge Bret Easton Ellis fan. Ill always say snowflake.

there is an element of conventional wisdom that is supposed to come in to play in life. maybe it goes something like this:

- if you are 17, don’t go out to a bar and get drunk and go back to a man’s apartment that you are not interested in screwing

- if you are 16 and don’t want to risk getting DP-ed by Stallone and his bodyguard, don’t go to Stallone’s las vegas hotel room to screw him

- if you don’t want to see Louis CK masturbate in front of you, don’t go back to his hotel room and say “yes” when he asks to masturbate in front of you

I an not saying what any of these men did is OK. It is not. Except maybe the DP thing, because, you know it’s vegas and we’re talking about Rambo here. But what I am saying is that young women still need to exercise prudent judgement in order to avoid scenarios where they might be unwillingly subject to penility. You don’t just get to floppity flop around bars and hotel rooms and never have to worry about your safety. It’s the developed world, but you still have to have some street smarts. No one deserves to be raped or assaulted against their will, except Donald Trump Jr; but in order to reduce the risk of getting molested you need to first start by not putting yourself in a risky position where that crime might be more likely to occur.

Not sure that that message is getting out in any of this. Yes, men are pigs and need to not sex women against their will. But also know that you still need to exercise basic judgement and not put yourself in a position where you are more likely to be compromised.

Green Habit wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:Gene Simmons pointing to his dick and saying "that's the fun machine" is definitely funny in my head

96583UP wrote:there is an element of conventional wisdom that is supposed to come in to play in life. maybe it goes something like this:

- if you are 17, don’t go out to a bar and get drunk and go back to a man’s apartment that you are not interested in screwing

- if you are 16 and don’t want to risk getting DP-ed by Stallone and his bodyguard, don’t go to Stallone’s las vegas hotel room to screw him

- if you don’t want to see Louis CK masturbate in front of you, don’t go back to his hotel room and say “yes” when he asks to masturbate in front of you

I an not saying what any of these men did is OK. It is not. Except maybe the DP thing, because, you know it’s vegas and we’re talking about Rambo here. But what I am saying is that young women still need to exercise prudent judgement in order to avoid scenarios where they might be unwillingly subject to penility. You don’t just get to floppity flop around bars and hotel rooms and never have to worry about your safety. It’s the developed world, but you still have to have some street smarts. No one deserves to be raped or assaulted against their will, except Donald Trump Jr; but in order to reduce the risk of getting molested you need to first start by not putting yourself in a risky position where that crime might be more likely to occur.

Not sure that that message is getting out in any of this. Yes, men are pigs and need to not sex women against their will. But also know that you still need to exercise basic judgement and not put yourself in a position where you are more likely to be compromised.

Women should be able to do what men do. They should be able to go out and party and have fun with their girlfriends and not worry about what some fucking asshole will do to them. I get what you are saying above, we all need to exercise caution and good judgement in basically anything that we do, but overall thumbs down to that viewpoint. Girls shouldnt have to worry about some guy hollering at them, grabbing their ass at the bar, and countless other ways in how they are mistreated.

what should be and what is are two different things

just because i think that i should be able to backpack across europe staying in hostels and never get robbed doesn’t mean that i should naively go do it without looking over my shoulder

the world is an unsafe place

protect yourself

Strat wrote:

96583UP wrote:there is an element of conventional wisdom that is supposed to come in to play in life. maybe it goes something like this:

- if you are 17, don’t go out to a bar and get drunk and go back to a man’s apartment that you are not interested in screwing

- if you are 16 and don’t want to risk getting DP-ed by Stallone and his bodyguard, don’t go to Stallone’s las vegas hotel room to screw him

- if you don’t want to see Louis CK masturbate in front of you, don’t go back to his hotel room and say “yes” when he asks to masturbate in front of you

I an not saying what any of these men did is OK. It is not. Except maybe the DP thing, because, you know it’s vegas and we’re talking about Rambo here. But what I am saying is that young women still need to exercise prudent judgement in order to avoid scenarios where they might be unwillingly subject to penility. You don’t just get to floppity flop around bars and hotel rooms and never have to worry about your safety. It’s the developed world, but you still have to have some street smarts. No one deserves to be raped or assaulted against their will, except Donald Trump Jr; but in order to reduce the risk of getting molested you need to first start by not putting yourself in a risky position where that crime might be more likely to occur.

Not sure that that message is getting out in any of this. Yes, men are pigs and need to not sex women against their will. But also know that you still need to exercise basic judgement and not put yourself in a position where you are more likely to be compromised.

Women should be able to do what men do. They should be able to go out and party and have fun with their girlfriends and not worry about what some fucking asshole will do to them. I get what you are saying above, we all need to exercise caution and good judgement in basically anything that we do, but overall thumbs down to that viewpoint. Girls shouldnt have to worry about some guy hollering at them, grabbing their ass at the bar, and countless other ways in how they are mistreated.

You’re absolutely right. They shouldn’t have to. But with things the way they are, they really need to.

96583UP wrote:what should be and what is are two different things

just because i think that i should be able to backpack across europe staying in hostels and never get robbed doesn’t mean that i should naively go do it without looking over my shoulder

the world is an unsafe place

protect yourself

Like I said, we all need exercise caution and good judgement in everything we do. However, the solution falls on douche bag bro's at the bar when it comes to womens safety.

wease wrote:

Strat wrote:

96583UP wrote:there is an element of conventional wisdom that is supposed to come in to play in life. maybe it goes something like this:

- if you are 17, don’t go out to a bar and get drunk and go back to a man’s apartment that you are not interested in screwing

- if you are 16 and don’t want to risk getting DP-ed by Stallone and his bodyguard, don’t go to Stallone’s las vegas hotel room to screw him

- if you don’t want to see Louis CK masturbate in front of you, don’t go back to his hotel room and say “yes” when he asks to masturbate in front of you

I an not saying what any of these men did is OK. It is not. Except maybe the DP thing, because, you know it’s vegas and we’re talking about Rambo here. But what I am saying is that young women still need to exercise prudent judgement in order to avoid scenarios where they might be unwillingly subject to penility. You don’t just get to floppity flop around bars and hotel rooms and never have to worry about your safety. It’s the developed world, but you still have to have some street smarts. No one deserves to be raped or assaulted against their will, except Donald Trump Jr; but in order to reduce the risk of getting molested you need to first start by not putting yourself in a risky position where that crime might be more likely to occur.

Not sure that that message is getting out in any of this. Yes, men are pigs and need to not sex women against their will. But also know that you still need to exercise basic judgement and not put yourself in a position where you are more likely to be compromised.

Women should be able to do what men do. They should be able to go out and party and have fun with their girlfriends and not worry about what some fucking asshole will do to them. I get what you are saying above, we all need to exercise caution and good judgement in basically anything that we do, but overall thumbs down to that viewpoint. Girls shouldnt have to worry about some guy hollering at them, grabbing their ass at the bar, and countless other ways in how they are mistreated.

You’re absolutely right. They shouldn’t have to. But with things the way they are, they really need to.

The solution, i believe, falls on the man's shoulder. Speak up. Stand up. Don't be a billy bush. You know? We have to change the culture.

Strat wrote:

wease wrote:

Strat wrote:

96583UP wrote:there is an element of conventional wisdom that is supposed to come in to play in life. maybe it goes something like this:

- if you are 17, don’t go out to a bar and get drunk and go back to a man’s apartment that you are not interested in screwing

- if you are 16 and don’t want to risk getting DP-ed by Stallone and his bodyguard, don’t go to Stallone’s las vegas hotel room to screw him

- if you don’t want to see Louis CK masturbate in front of you, don’t go back to his hotel room and say “yes” when he asks to masturbate in front of you

I an not saying what any of these men did is OK. It is not. Except maybe the DP thing, because, you know it’s vegas and we’re talking about Rambo here. But what I am saying is that young women still need to exercise prudent judgement in order to avoid scenarios where they might be unwillingly subject to penility. You don’t just get to floppity flop around bars and hotel rooms and never have to worry about your safety. It’s the developed world, but you still have to have some street smarts. No one deserves to be raped or assaulted against their will, except Donald Trump Jr; but in order to reduce the risk of getting molested you need to first start by not putting yourself in a risky position where that crime might be more likely to occur.

Not sure that that message is getting out in any of this. Yes, men are pigs and need to not sex women against their will. But also know that you still need to exercise basic judgement and not put yourself in a position where you are more likely to be compromised.

Women should be able to do what men do. They should be able to go out and party and have fun with their girlfriends and not worry about what some fucking asshole will do to them. I get what you are saying above, we all need to exercise caution and good judgement in basically anything that we do, but overall thumbs down to that viewpoint. Girls shouldnt have to worry about some guy hollering at them, grabbing their ass at the bar, and countless other ways in how they are mistreated.

You’re absolutely right. They shouldn’t have to. But with things the way they are, they really need to.

The solution, i believe, falls on the man's shoulder. Speak up. Stand up. Don't be a billy bush. You know? We have to change the culture.

Once again, I agree with you.

maybe one day there will be an app created to document consensuality

later it can be expanded like Yelp to rate your sexual experience

Yeah, be safe, take care lf yourself, etc. But I am seriously suspicious of the instinct to turn this cultural moment into another opportunity to tell women how to behave. Especially when, yeah, some of that shit is common sense. Clearly common sense has failed at that point. That's not even taking into consideration the fallaciousness of some of the scenarios in that post (fucking Sly Stallone doesn't mean you are OK with being forced into a threesome and physically threatened, for example)

theplatypus wrote:Yeah, be safe, take care lf yourself, etc. But I am seriously suspicious of the instinct to turn this cultural moment into another opportunity to tell women how to behave. Especially when, yeah, some of that shit is common sense. Clearly common sense has failed at that point. That's not even taking into consideration the fallaciousness of some of the scenarios in that post (fucking Sly Stallone doesn't mean you are OK with being forced into a threesome and physically threatened, for example)

If you’re fucking Rocky, isn’t that automatically a physical threat?

theplatypus wrote:Yeah, be safe, take care lf yourself, etc. But I am seriously suspicious of the instinct to turn this cultural moment into another opportunity to tell women how to behave. Especially when, yeah, some of that shit is common sense. Clearly common sense has failed at that point. That's not even taking into consideration the fallaciousness of some of the scenarios in that post (fucking Sly Stallone doesn't mean you are OK with being forced into a threesome and physically threatened, for example)

Sure, no one should be put in a position where they are physically threatened, but there needs to be some level of give and take. Everyone is going to have a different threshold for when annoying transcends to threatening, potentially changing situation by situation, and no 3rd party is going to be able to assess that before a social interaction occurs. So while there are clear no-nos such as sex talk in the office or touching a stranger, awkward flirting in a bar or "hi" on the street should probably not be #metoo moments and I would hope that it's not too much to ask that people would cut others some slack in those situations.

Bi_3 wrote:awkward flirting in a bar or "hi" on the street should probably not be #metoo moments

Not entirely sure what this has to do with the scenarios 98653UP described

this could be a moment where women remind other women of the importance of putting yourself in a position to remain safe. maybe someone like oprah, who won’t get flamed out on for doing so

the twittersphere mentality can get stuck in a reactionary hero vs villain loop

there can be an opportunity for responsible takeaways from these events too

aside from just stoning people in the town square

Why on earth should the takeaway have anything to do with women doing anything? The problem here is men. Most of these stories are about women who are being harassed in the workplace. What the fuck are they supposed to do? This "be safe" stuff is such a weird and deflective point to make. The onus isn't on women. Men need to be better.

because there can be more than one takeaway

because as long as there have been and will be humans on this planet, there will, unfortunately, be unwanted sexual advances

so in addition to stoning the rapist

tell the 17 year old that might consider going to a bar and getting drunk and going back to a man’s apartment that she does not want to have sex with to reconsider whether she should go back to his apartment

because shit happens

Seems like a weird time to bring that up but okay

I gotta say, all this apologetic justification for Franken's actions is really fucking disgusting.

Okay. She reluctantly agreed to rehearse a kiss for a comedy bit, planning to back away at the last minute. Why did Franken decide it was cool for him to forcefully shove his tongue into her mouth? How is that part of the bit? How is it cool to take a picture joke-groping this same woman WHILE SHE IS ASLEEP?! Do you really have no empathy for this woman? For how humiliating and dehumanizing that must have felt? To have already felt violated by that kiss, then to later find out he did this while you weren't even awake? What if it were your wife? Daughter? Mother? That doesn't make you feel at all upset? You don't see how that would make someone feel angry and violated and disgusted and belittled? Really? If that were my wife in that picture, I would want to fucking murder Franken.

I get that Franken is a good senator fighting for a lot of important causes. You can accept that without having to bend over backwards trying to excuse his vile actions. People are nuanced. They are not one thing. Roman Polanski is a child rapist. He is also arguably the best filmmaker to ever live. Bill Cosby is a serial rapist. He is also a hugely influential comedian. Louis CK has sexually harassed multiple women. He is also probably one of the best comedians alive. Al Franken sexually harassed/assaulted this woman. He is also a great senator who is fighting the good fight politically. You can acknowledge both things; it's not all or nothing.