Red Mosquito

Green Habit wrote:Warren spent a good 10 minutes not giving a clear answer on whether taxes would go up to pay for M4A. At least Bernie had the sense to say "yes they will, but the net costs to people will be lower".

This is not a repeat from every time she has been asked

They added another guy?!

I kinda like Cory Booker.

They really need get all but three or four of these people off the stage.

My categorical ranking of the candidates from last night in my perspective:

Candidates I most want to hear from:
(1) Elizabeth Warren
(2) Pete Buttigieg

Candidates I can tolerate and still have something to say:
(3) Julian Castro
(4) Amy Klobuchar
(5) Corey Booker

Candidates I get are still there but I wish they weren’t:
(6) Kamala Harris
(7) Joe Biden
(8) Bernie Sanders
(9) Andrew Yang

Get off the stage please:
(10) Tom Steyer
(11) Tulsi Gabbard
(12) Beto O’Rourke
(13) candidates out there that didn’t qualify for the debate

what a strange list

these are strange times.

It is a weird list. I have become much less an ideologue and focused on what I think are positive messages. I get Buttigieg and his point about purity tests and having to consider what you can accomplish, but at the same time feel like Warren is the most consistent candidate that is not Bernie Sanders. If the debate were ongoing about those parameters with those candidates through June I would not be upset.

The next three fall in that spectrum of maybe not being the candidate but at least keeping a robust conversation going. I could do without the rest.

Amy Klobuchar is not my candidate. I'd be totally fine if she dropped out tonight. Other than that, I can see where you're coming from on much of that list, liebzz.

Oh, I am 100% not voting for Klobuchar, but I do think she adds to the conversation rather than detract from it. Plus, who can resist the one liners that are akin to the guy from Louisiana that won Next Food Network Star!?

I have disliked Globuchar since the get-go, and not just because of the plethora of stories from her former staffers about how inhumane she is (which to me means -> is a poor leader). When she first started speaking last night, it seemed like she was crazy nervous. Maybe I am just not used to her voice and it came across as though she was nervous. But damn, she looked shook. Then, naturally once everyone started bashing Warren, she warmed up and was mildly interesting. Doesn't seem to offer much on her own. But I kind of left it wanting to hear more from her.

I hate to say it but I don't feel confident that any of these people beat Trump. His base will vote for him no matter what, and seem to be better organized than the opposition. I think the only hope is for him to be impeached, or someone like Mitt Romney, who can appeal to sane republicans and centrist, needs to run. I like Warren, but I can't shake the vibe that if she gets the nod it's just Hillary 2.0.

For the record I'm not a big Mitt fan, and per online surveys, I seem to be more in line with Bernie.

darth_vedder wrote:I hate to say it but I don't feel confident that any of these people beat Trump. His base will vote for him no matter what, and seem to be better organized than the opposition. I think the only hope is for him to be impeached, or someone like Mitt Romney, who can appeal to sane republicans and centrist, needs to run. I like Warren, but I can't shake the vibe that if she gets the nod it's just Hillary 2.0.

For the record I'm not a big Mitt fan, and per online surveys, I seem to be more in line with Bernie.

You may be right. But I think this says more about the left and its fractured base than it does anything about Trump. For what it's worth, Biden's support skews old, and Bernie's young. One clearly good with moderates, one with progressives. Warren's support doesn't seem as concentrated in young or old, center or left. She probably has the most room to grow.

Also, the last "moderate and/or centrist" Dem to win the election as a moderate was 27 years ago. Obama was a progressive in '08, the 3 other centrists lost to W & Trump, so...

darth_vedder wrote:I like Warren, but I can't shake the vibe that if she gets the nod it's just Hillary 2.0

Internalized sexism at work.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

darth_vedder wrote:I like Warren, but I can't shake the vibe that if she gets the nod it's just Hillary 2.0

Internalized sexism at work.

I guess, I was more thinking that is how Trump and his followers will label her. Everything said about Hillary is just going to get recycled in some way again, and he'll have his people spewing the propaganda. Basically I don't see any of these candidates beating Trump at the moment. They openly hate them all except maybe Biden.

I can’t decide whether the idea that Trump supporters would turn for **any** candidate, or that they are a demographic needed to win the election, is more absurd.