Red Mosquito

Peeps wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Who is "we" here? If you think imported peasant laborers are very free to do those things, you are delusional.

are they going to switch from pickinig fields to running a scrum of a system upgrade? no. if they want to leave a job working the fields and do grunt work in construction they are most certainly free to do so

When I compared the present system to indentured servitude, I didn't literally mean they were chained into slave quarters and not allowed to leave for a period of years. Don't be so pedantic.

They are brought here under the agreement that they are to be paid peasant wages, often under the table, and that they are to keep their heads down, stay out of the way, and not receive benefits, to the great benefit of their employers, both conservative and liberal, and the detriment of the American working class. They may be free to move laterally under that system, but I wouldn't call that freedom.

And to spike's nonsense post: making jobs only available to working class American citizens, with their protections and political power - which will necessitate increasing wages/labor costs as well as rebuilding the hollowed out middle class and industrial base - is not indentured servitude.

And before anyone says anything, making them all citizens (or practically making the entire world citizens of the US) is a terrible solution that ignores all sorts of realities.

Shit, even the commies understood this relationship between the elites and foreign labor. Their internationalism and blank-slateism was what was idiotic.

You aren’t free to move sideways laterally parallel upwards downwards or anywhere in indentured servitude. You aren’t free to go anywhere.

Migrant workers aren’t in indentured servitude.

Oh ok.

Actually, implicit in spike's post is the agreement that modern American farm labor is like indentured servitude, he'd just rather it be done to Mexicans instead of Americans. Otherwise his post doesn't make any sense.

BurtReynolds wrote:Actually, implicit in spike's post is the agreement that modern American farm labor is like indentured servitude, he'd just rather it be done to Mexicans instead of Americans. Otherwise his post doesn't make any sense.

how about going to the root issue of the problem of low wages. farmers could pay americans to tend to their fields but would have to pay minimum wage. this will then increase the cost of these goods. so instead farmers will pay the least amount of money they can for their help. so instead of going after the migrants who for the most part are just trying to make a better life for them and their family go after the farmers for employing illegal labor.

but that doest fit into the whole nothing but rapists and murders and gang members have invaded our country.

but if you honestly want to go ahead and make indentured servitude that was wide spread when america was first discovered (and before then) then go ahead. but that would make you wrong

Low wages can't improve if the supply of workers is massive, and the working class has no power to enforce a minimum because the wealthy - in part by using cheap foreign labor - has obliterated American working class power. If corporations were limited to hiring American citizens, they'd have to pay a lot more than minimum wage, and the native working class would be much more empowered to enforce its interests.

I don't like demonizing immigrants either, though at the same time importing tens of millions of people from a different culture is going to cause all sorts of problems, including crime, regardless of how noble they are.

Everyone on earth is trying to make a better life for themselves - that is, act in their own selfish interests - including criminals, immigrants and natives. Heck, even suicides are trying to improve their condition. That's neither here nor there. If I were a Guatemalan peasant I'd be trying to come here too, and would be justified in trying to (selfishly) improve my lot in life. But that's no justification to allow one's country to be flooded with massive amounts of cheap labor. Citizens of the US also have the right to protect their interests against cheap foreign labor, and border enforcement isn't some objective moral evil.

Neither party had shown any interest in going after the root issue, which is the powerful corporations that benefit from importing cheap foreign labor (along with outsourcing to Asia).

But at least Trump is capricious and unpredictable and narcissistic enough to occasionally fuck over his bourgeois allies who try to push him to allow more worker visas and whatnot. Which is more than anyone can say for the Democrats or his neocon Republican predecessors. Also, his anti-immigration persona, whether true or false, still seems to have a massive effect on border crossings.

Didn’t Trump just TACO on this and say that he’s now allowing farm workers and hotel industry workers to stay?

Wouldn't surprise me.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Didn’t Trump just TACO on this and say that he’s now allowing farm workers and hotel industry workers to stay?

Yes, he has indicated a compromise EO is coming

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Didn’t Trump just TACO on this and say that he’s now allowing farm workers and hotel industry workers to stay?

Cool. He really seems to have a solid plan for things

He's a giant shithead. Looking forward to his demise.

BurtReynolds wrote:

Peeps wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Who is "we" here? If you think imported peasant laborers are very free to do those things, you are delusional.

are they going to switch from pickinig fields to running a scrum of a system upgrade? no. if they want to leave a job working the fields and do grunt work in construction they are most certainly free to do so

When I compared the present system to indentured servitude, I didn't literally mean they were chained into slave quarters and not allowed to leave for a period of years. Don't be so pedantic.

They are brought here under the agreement that they are to be paid peasant wages, often under the table, and that they are to keep their heads down, stay out of the way, and not receive benefits, to the great benefit of their employers, both conservative and liberal, and the detriment of the American working class. They may be free to move laterally under that system, but I wouldn't call that freedom.

And to spike's nonsense post: making jobs only available to working class American citizens, with their protections and political power - which will necessitate increasing wages/labor costs as well as rebuilding the hollowed out middle class and industrial base - is not indentured servitude.

And before anyone says anything, making them all citizens (or practically making the entire world citizens of the US) is a terrible solution that ignores all sorts of realities.

Shit, even the commies understood this relationship between the elites and foreign labor. Their internationalism and blank-slateism was what was idiotic.

actually, you compared the present system to slavery. hence my nonsense post replying to your nonsense post.

BurtReynolds wrote:Actually, implicit in spike's post is the agreement that modern American farm labor is like indentured servitude, he'd just rather it be done to Mexicans instead of Americans. Otherwise his post doesn't make any sense.

woosh

I bet when someone complains about "slave wages", you cut in with "AkKshUalY it's not slave wages. Slave don't get paid at all!"

There is no one left for him to betray and it hasn't even been 6 months yet.

Who could have possibly seen this coming besides like literally everyone with an IQ over potato.

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T-Mellon Events is looking for seat fillers and extras to provide their time for space maximization and attendance perception for an event taking place in Washington DC on June 14th. Extras and Seat fillers will check in on the morning of June 14th at 9:00 a.m.
Extras are required to wear Red, White and Blue clothing and will be provided a RED hat to wear. GOLD accessories are acceptable as well. The team will advise the extras where to stand or sit according to the line of sight from a VIP viewing platform area.
Extras and Seat fillers will be paid a flat daily fee and will be provided a lunch of fast food and soda.
We encourage people of color and ethnic groups to sign up for maximum perception control and these individuals will be prominently displayed on the televised broadcast and local viewing screens to be seen by the VIP platform.

I thought Trump was anti-DEI

Great to see so many massive protests all across America today.

dimejinky99 wrote:Great to see so many massive protests all across America today.