Red Mosquito

dimejinky99 wrote:

ABNorman wrote:At this point I just want Scotland to split, rejoin the EU, and offer citizenship to people with Scottish parents.

I get so infuriated watching parliament titter and tatter about these massive issues as if they were in some public school debate hall.

Fuck the lot of 'em.

See this? Fantastic speech

made me tear up a little bit. I hope they finally get their independence.

dimejinky99 wrote: There’s been 800,000 applications for Irish passports from the UK on that same basis.
It’s appalling Scotland and Northern Ireland are being taken out against their will, as you said, by a bunch of incompetent self serving idiots in Westminster

My husband and his brother will be looking into getting their Irish passports.

Working agreement defeated again by 58 votes.

We’re heading toward a no deal crash out in just 14 days

I don’t fully understand the vitriol that gets aimed at May...my recollection is that she was a remainer, and I’ve never thought any deal could be negotiated with Brussels that the conservatives would actually accept...but it’s amazing to me that she isn’t long past done.

McParadigm wrote:I don’t fully understand the vitriol that gets aimed at May...my recollection is that she was a remainer, and I’ve never thought any deal could be negotiated with Brussels that the conservatives would actually accept...but it’s amazing to me that she isn’t long past done.

In a nutshell she’s loathed by all within her own party and in Europe.
It’s not a thatcher steely determination. It’s complete intransigence she doesn’t listen to anyone ever. Comments came out of the meetings with the EU saying she’s both completely stupid and unwilling to even listen. Members of her own party have said the same.
Never should have been made PM and doesn’t have the leadership skills or any understanding of negotiation in any way whatsoever.
She’s already regarded as Britain’s worst PM ever.

This is sadly true. Would have been a massive and permanent economic boom for Northern ireland (see what I did there) and the entire province has been sold down the shitter by the DUP

dimejinky99 wrote:In a nutshell she’s loathed by all within her own party and in Europe.
It’s not a thatcher steely determination. It’s complete intransigence she doesn’t listen to anyone ever.

None of this makes it clearer to me, because it’s about personality and not policy. And frankly, being a Conservative who is loathed by this particular group of Conservatives seems like a mark in her favor. I’m not sure they’d accept any deal that isnt legally impossible, written in crayon, and signed in blood.

Comments came out of the meetings with the EU saying she’s both completely stupid and unwilling to even listen.

Again, if she’s trying to manage a deal that will pass the House, probably everything the EU has to say is problematic for her because it is based in legal and economic realities that her party will not admit exist. What other options does she have, but to be obstinant to the point of absurdity with both sides?

Members of her own party have said the same.

They can eat my ass.

I sound like a May apologist, but I’m not. I think she lacks leadership skills sufficient to the moment (or most moments), I think she has failed terribly to address Islamophobia and stupidity within her party, and I think she would have done well for herself to get out a long time ago. But I also hear (and this may be due to an ocean between us) very few specifics from others about what exactly they would put forward in lieu of her deal, and I suspect most don’t have any better an answer themselves. I feel like “a deal exists somewhere out there that can be made with Europe and will pass the House and will be good for England etc” is a line of complete bullshit from the very start, in which case how can the lack of such a deal be her fault?

Well this is just it.
She didn’t reach out across the aisle before triggering A50 to get cross party consensus.
She didn’t consult or listen to any of her own party. She listened only to the DUP who got her elected and now hold her over the barrel. The DUP in Westminster is made up of 10 people.
See where I’m going?
She came up with a bunch of redlines and unworkable demands and the Eu batted them all down. Her insistence on going this alone you could see it as admirable. It’s stupid though.

Now the sharks are circling looking to replace her, Johnson, Raab, Barron and not one of them has or will come up with anything better than she could have.

not one of them has or will come up with anything better than she could have.

I rest my case.

I just don’t think there IS a deal which is achievable with the Union, passable within the House, acceptable to the public, and not destined to become political kryptonite the minute it goes into effect. The central promise of Brexit, that a well-written deal could make it all come up roses, was a lazily drafted pipe dream. That makes it really, really hard for me to dump too much blame on someone who was against Brexit at the start.

I blame British voters for this mess more than I do Theresa May. I think she’s a mediocre politician first, but a perfect scapegoat for their gullibility above all else.

See that’s the sad scary part. Her job was to deliver brexit. But the architects that brought it about, Cameron In his stupidity, Farrage, UKIP, Johnson and an extremely toxic anti Eu anti immigrant media are all far more responsible.

But the public have short memories. They just deal with what’s in front of them and she’s the target

They need to rescind Article 50 and start again.
BUT that's probably not an option.

Saw that:) I’m in a brexit group on fb. Some of the pics and memes are gold

The penny finally drops

How accurate is this argument?

On the face of it yeah but general election and extension application are even more likely than anything.

McParadigm wrote:

not one of them has or will come up with anything better than she could have.

I rest my case.

I just don’t think there IS a deal which is achievable with the Union, passable within the House, acceptable to the public, and not destined to become political kryptonite the minute it goes into effect. The central promise of Brexit, that a well-written deal could make it all come up roses, was a lazily drafted pipe dream. That makes it really, really hard for me to dump too much blame on someone who was against Brexit at the start.

I blame British voters for this mess more than I do Theresa May. I think she’s a mediocre politician first, but a perfect scapegoat for their gullibility above all else.

Brilliant article. The cast of villains on the Brexit side is huge.

‘The Humbling of Britain’


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... ng-britain

dimejinky99 wrote:On the face of it yeah but general election and extension application are even more likely than anything.

They already got an extension on the understanding that it would only be until April 11 unless May’s deal passed. Why would the EU cave and weaken its bargaining position by extending further in spite of today’s vote?

It just sounds like more of England talking to a door they just closed in their own faces.

McParadigm wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:On the face of it yeah but general election and extension application are even more likely than anything.

They already got an extension on the understanding that it would only be until April 11 unless May’s deal passed. Why would the EU cave and weaken its bargaining position by extending further in spite of today’s vote?

It just sounds like more of England talking to a door they just closed in their own faces.

Billions of moolah is why.

McParadigm wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:On the face of it yeah but general election and extension application are even more likely than anything.

They already got an extension on the understanding that it would only be until April 11 unless May’s deal passed. Why would the EU cave and weaken its bargaining position by extending further in spite of today’s vote?

It just sounds like more of England talking to a door they just closed in their own faces.

No they said they can have further extension in the event of a political circumstance like a GE or second referendum. The UK will have take part in European elections though. But that’s not really a huge deal as far as I can tell when stacked up against the catastrophe of no deal.

They’ll almost certainly be given a far longer extension.
Humiliating for them