Red Mosquito

The Argonaut wrote:It's risky because the ball could bounce away from you into the outfield, and it's only advantageous if the batter isn't running out of the box at all.

Pay close attention. I guarantee you 9 out of the next 10 times you see this play as a possibility, it will be a no brainer. Sure out at second to eliminate the faster runner. Virtually zero risk.

I don't see a slower baserunner on first being worth the risk of losing the ball and having two men on.

The Argonaut wrote:I don't see a slower baserunner on first being worth the risk of losing the ball and having two men on.

You're anticipating the worst bad hop of all time.

PS - Kinsler was way too close to that ball coming down. I'd position myself back at least 5-10 feet further just in case of a bad hop.

I would also pull this play on a soft line drive. I'd deliberately knock the ball down in front of me and throw to second. Chances are the runner from first has already got his momentum running back to first base and you might even be able to get a double play out of it.

That being said, much more risky and the ball would have to be hit perfectly.

Or if he throws it away when tossing to second. Or the other infielder doesn't anticipate what you're doing and he flubs it. It introduces too many chances to mess up.

The Argonaut wrote:Or if he throws it away when tossing to second. Or the other infielder doesn't anticipate what you're doing and he flubs it. It introduces too many chances to mess up.

Well you gotta be on the same page withcho double play partna, bro!

The Argonaut wrote:Or if he throws it away when tossing to second. Or the other infielder doesn't anticipate what you're doing and he flubs it. It introduces too many chances to mess up.

Exactly. If this move wasn't super risky, everyone would do it all the time.

I always thought the umpire was allowed to call the batter out and let the runner stay at first on that play. I feel like Alomar did it back when he played for the Jays and it was overruled by the ump because it was intentional, but maybe I'm just mis-remembering.

Also, 11:00? What the hell is that?

philpritchard wrote:Also, 11:00? What the hell is that?

It's a Patriots day tradition. Canadians wouldn't understand what it's like to tell the British monarchy to fuck off.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

The Argonaut wrote:Or if he throws it away when tossing to second. Or the other infielder doesn't anticipate what you're doing and he flubs it. It introduces too many chances to mess up.

Exactly. If this move wasn't super risky, everyone would do it all the time.

The entire premise of the infield fly rule is to prevent getting cheap outs on TWO lead runners (hell, even three under ideal circumstances). There must be something to it if they've created a rule to specifically disallow it. I'm talking about a sure fire way to get ONE cheap out.

I don't know if you knew this but there's a video of Ian Kinsler proving this works like a goddamn charm.

Bammer wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

The Argonaut wrote:Or if he throws it away when tossing to second. Or the other infielder doesn't anticipate what you're doing and he flubs it. It introduces too many chances to mess up.

Exactly. If this move wasn't super risky, everyone would do it all the time.

The entire premise of the infield fly rule is to prevent getting cheap outs on TWO lead runners (hell, even three under ideal circumstances). There must be something to it if they've created a rule to specifically disallow it. I'm talking about a sure fire way to get ONE cheap out.

I don't know if you knew this but there's a video of Ian Kinsler proving this works like a goddamn charm.

The video doesn't prove that there's no risk of the ball bouncing away, though.

philpritchard wrote:

Bammer wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

The Argonaut wrote:Or if he throws it away when tossing to second. Or the other infielder doesn't anticipate what you're doing and he flubs it. It introduces too many chances to mess up.

Exactly. If this move wasn't super risky, everyone would do it all the time.

The entire premise of the infield fly rule is to prevent getting cheap outs on TWO lead runners (hell, even three under ideal circumstances). There must be something to it if they've created a rule to specifically disallow it. I'm talking about a sure fire way to get ONE cheap out.

I don't know if you knew this but there's a video of Ian Kinsler proving this works like a goddamn charm.

The video doesn't prove that there's no risk of the ball bouncing away, though.

I don't think you people understand how long it takes to throw a baseball 50ft versus how long it takes someone to run 90ft, even if you fumble the ball slightly. I'm talking about a can of corn pop up, not a sharp grounder.

Anyway, I rest my case based on the mere existence of the infield fly rule which clearly proves me right and you purists out there really need to start living a little.

Bammer wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

Bammer wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

The Argonaut wrote:Or if he throws it away when tossing to second. Or the other infielder doesn't anticipate what you're doing and he flubs it. It introduces too many chances to mess up.

Exactly. If this move wasn't super risky, everyone would do it all the time.

The entire premise of the infield fly rule is to prevent getting cheap outs on TWO lead runners (hell, even three under ideal circumstances). There must be something to it if they've created a rule to specifically disallow it. I'm talking about a sure fire way to get ONE cheap out.

I don't know if you knew this but there's a video of Ian Kinsler proving this works like a goddamn charm.

The video doesn't prove that there's no risk of the ball bouncing away, though.

I don't think you people understand how long it takes to throw a baseball 50ft versus how long it takes someone to run 90ft, even if you fumble the ball slightly. I'm talking about a can of corn pop up, not a sharp grounder.

Anyway, I rest my case based on the mere existence of the infield fly rule which clearly proves me right and you purists out there really need to start living a little.

Aren't chud and I kind of two of the least "purist" baseball fans on here?

philpritchard wrote:I always thought the umpire was allowed to call the batter out and let the runner stay at first on that play. I feel like Alomar did it back when he played for the Jays and it was overruled by the ump because it was intentional, but maybe I'm just mis-remembering.

An Infield Fly is a fair fly ball (not a line drive or bunt) that, in the judgment of the umpire, can be caught by an infielder, pitcher, or catcher with ordinary effort and when there are runners on first and second or first, second, and third and less than two outs.

spike wrote:

philpritchard wrote:I always thought the umpire was allowed to call the batter out and let the runner stay at first on that play. I feel like Alomar did it back when he played for the Jays and it was overruled by the ump because it was intentional, but maybe I'm just mis-remembering.

An Infield Fly is a fair fly ball (not a line drive or bunt) that, in the judgment of the umpire, can be caught by an infielder, pitcher, or catcher with ordinary effort and when there are runners on first and second or first, second, and third and less than two outs.

The infield fly rule wouldn't apply because it was just a runner on first.

Rule 6.05
A batter is out when...

(l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases;
APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the ground, except when the Infield Fly rule applies.

There we go. If Kinsler let it hit his glove before it hit the ground (to make sure it didn't get away from him on a weird bounce or something) then the batter would have been out.

philpritchard wrote:

spike wrote:

philpritchard wrote:I always thought the umpire was allowed to call the batter out and let the runner stay at first on that play. I feel like Alomar did it back when he played for the Jays and it was overruled by the ump because it was intentional, but maybe I'm just mis-remembering.

An Infield Fly is a fair fly ball (not a line drive or bunt) that, in the judgment of the umpire, can be caught by an infielder, pitcher, or catcher with ordinary effort and when there are runners on first and second or first, second, and third and less than two outs.

The infield fly rule wouldn't apply because it was just a runner on first.

correct.

philpritchard wrote:Rule 6.05
A batter is out when...

(l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases;
APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the ground, except when the Infield Fly rule applies.

There we go. If Kinsler let it hit his glove before it hit the ground (to make sure it didn't get away from him on a weird bounce or something) then the batter would have been out.

Ok perfect. Still works for pop flys. Not for soft liners. It's a great play.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

philpritchard wrote:Also, 11:00? What the hell is that?

It's a Patriots day tradition. Canadians wouldn't understand what it's like to tell the British monarchy to fuck off.

This was a fantastic post.