Red Mosquito

Strat wrote:Also, everyone I know here who owns a home and a family works their asses off and should be able to get that deduction above $500K. They aren't rich. They work sales and reservations at hotels.

So why can't we cut their income tax or their payroll tax burden instead? I have no issue with them paying less in taxes. I dislike this tax credit because I think it distorts incentives and leads to inflated home prices.

McParadigm wrote:Hmm.

Translation: "WTF Guys, my friends stopped investing in my various interests when I aligned myself with a racist pedophile."

4/5 wrote:

Strat wrote:Also, everyone I know here who owns a home and a family works their asses off and should be able to get that deduction above $500K. They aren't rich. They work sales and reservations at hotels.

So why can't we cut their income tax or their payroll tax burden instead? I have no issue with them paying less in taxes. I dislike this tax credit because I think it distorts incentives and leads to inflated home prices.

Possibly. We'll see. I think it has more to do with supply and demand and lack of housing units across the board. But, ive got a narrow view of it being an appraiser in Vail fucking Colorado for 10 y ears now. I know this place is not like the rest of the world.

We have a major housing shortage that has inflated prices.

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Strat wrote:Dropping that mortgage deduction from $1,0m to $500k sucks for the record.

But doesn't that work towards closing the wage gap? I don't know too many middle-class people who can afford a $500K+ home, so this looks to reap more tax revenue from high-earning homeowners.

Eh, on the flipside that mortgage deduction can help make that $500,000 home a bit more affordable. Also, home prices are fucking skyrocketing where once entry level homes that cost $400, are now up to $750K. At least where I live.

It will probably suppress prices on homes over $500k since many buyers rely on the tax break to be able to afford them. Maybe not in the Boulder area or other nicer parts of CO given demand there.

And also, maybe now this causes another housing bust which will lead to countless other financial crisis?

4/5 wrote:

Strat wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Strat wrote:Dropping that mortgage deduction from $1,0m to $500k sucks for the record.

But doesn't that work towards closing the wage gap? I don't know too many middle-class people who can afford a $500K+ home, so this looks to reap more tax revenue from high-earning homeowners.

Eh, on the flipside that mortgage deduction can help make that $500,000 home a bit more affordable. Also, home prices are fucking skyrocketing where once entry level homes that cost $400, are now up to $750K. At least where I live.

Isn't it possible that the mortgage interest deduction is one (of many) factors boosting price to such stratospheric levels?

4/5 wrote:

Strat wrote:Also, everyone I know here who owns a home and a family works their asses off and should be able to get that deduction above $500K. They aren't rich. They work sales and reservations at hotels.

So why can't we cut their income tax or their payroll tax burden instead? I have no issue with them paying less in taxes. I dislike this tax credit because I think it distorts incentives and leads to inflated home prices.

Yeah, I don't know enough about this stuff but my gut tells me that 4/5 is on the right track here.

A housing bubble bursting on its own would not necessarily lead to a financial crisis.

Im not arguing for one of the other. Hell, lets get both a reduction in taxes and a mortgage deduction! Im just curious to see how it might impact my purchasing ability and my job here. IM curious.

Strat wrote:Im not arguing for one of the other. Hell, lets get both a reduction in taxes and a mortgage deduction! Im just curious to see how it might impact my purchasing ability and my job here. IM curious.

I'd imagine that for you personally having mortgage deduction (and having it as high as possible) would be good for you as someone in the real estate industry.

Strat wrote:Also, everyone I know here who owns a home and a family works their asses off and should be able to get that deduction above $500K. They aren't rich. They work sales and reservations at hotels.

I made a similar argument about taxes and child care costs in this thread like a year ago. In my area you are lucky to get away with $20k/kid/year. Not being able to deduct more than $5k/year for care costs makes having even one child financially challenging for working middle class parents.

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:Also, everyone I know here who owns a home and a family works their asses off and should be able to get that deduction above $500K. They aren't rich. They work sales and reservations at hotels.

I made a similar argument about taxes and child care costs in this thread like a year ago. In my area you are lucky to get away with $20k/kid/year. Not being able to deduct more than $5k/year for care costs makes having even one child financially challenging for working middle class parents.

I find this argument stronger than the mortgage one because this could really make things tough on a single parent. My preference is still to have lower income and payroll tax rates with a generous standard deduction and virtually no loopholes.


Edited for poor word choice

I'm worried he might just melt.

Seth Abramson on a roll this morning:

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson?ref_sr ... art%3D9620

tragabigzanda wrote:Seth Abramson on a roll this morning:

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson?ref_sr ... art%3D9620

Good reading, that.

How does this end? Does anyone actually end up paying for it? Is Pence POTUS? God help us...

durdencommatyler wrote:How does this end? Does anyone actually end up paying for it? Is Pence POTUS? God help us...

At this point, I think a very realistic and relatively good scenario is that the impeachment process takes us up to and through the maternal elections, at which point Pres. Pence could potentially be cock-blocked at every opportunity. Of course I don't want to get my hopes up, but two weeks ago this would've read like fantasy to me; now it feels entirely plausible.

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:How does this end? Does anyone actually end up paying for it? Is Pence POTUS? God help us...

At this point, I think a very realistic and relatively good scenario is that the impeachment process takes us up to and through the maternal elections, at which point Pres. Pence could potentially be cock-blocked at every opportunity. Of course I don't want to get my hopes up, but two weeks ago this would've read like fantasy to me; now it feels entirely plausible.

I really hope people know what they're doing and are planning this out to inflict maximum damage to those responsible while inflicting minimal harm on the American people. Fingers crossed.

Ultimately, eliminating these criminals from power is priority #1. But it'll be a hollow victory if they all get pardoned and no one actually suffers any real consequences and live rolls on as usual.

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:How does this end? Does anyone actually end up paying for it? Is Pence POTUS? God help us...

At this point, I think a very realistic and relatively good scenario is that the impeachment process takes us up to and through the maternal elections, at which point Pres. Pence could potentially be cock-blocked at every opportunity. Of course I don't want to get my hopes up, but two weeks ago this would've read like fantasy to me; now it feels entirely plausible.

I really hope people know what they're doing and are planning this out to inflict maximum damage to those responsible while inflicting minimal harm on the American people. Fingers crossed.

Ultimately, eliminating these criminals from power is priority #1. But it'll be a hollow victory if they all get pardoned and no one actually suffers any real consequences and live rolls on as usual.

You may have missed a small post I made yesterday or perhaps the day before, but the upshot is that there is a little known law that says that anyone who receives a presidential pardon is not allowed to plead the fifth amendment once put on a witness stand; trumps cohorts effectively become more damaging to him should he pardon them.

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:How does this end? Does anyone actually end up paying for it? Is Pence POTUS? God help us...

At this point, I think a very realistic and relatively good scenario is that the impeachment process takes us up to and through the maternal elections, at which point Pres. Pence could potentially be cock-blocked at every opportunity. Of course I don't want to get my hopes up, but two weeks ago this would've read like fantasy to me; now it feels entirely plausible.

I really hope people know what they're doing and are planning this out to inflict maximum damage to those responsible while inflicting minimal harm on the American people. Fingers crossed.

Ultimately, eliminating these criminals from power is priority #1. But it'll be a hollow victory if they all get pardoned and no one actually suffers any real consequences and live rolls on as usual.

You may have missed a small post I made yesterday or perhaps the day before, but the upshot is that there is a little known law that says that anyone who receives a presidential pardon is not allowed to plead the fifth amendment once put on a witness stand; trumps cohorts effectively become more damaging to him should he pardon them.

Yeah, but none of that matters if Pence pardons Trump.

That is a good point, but it raises a new question: if Pence were to pardon Trump, surely they could trace that pardon back to conversations the two had together prior to trumps eventual impeachment; would that amount to a de facto obstruction of justice by Pence?

tragabigzanda wrote:That is a good point, but it raises a new question: if Pence were to pardon Trump, surely they could trace that pardon back to conversations the two had together prior to trumps eventual impeachment; would that amount to a de facto obstruction of justice by Pence?

But would that even matter? Does that lead to Pence's impeachment and removal? Maybe but probably not before the election. He's a lame duck so it doesn't matter. But even if it did, does that stop his VP from pardoning him? Probably not. And Trump and Pence both get off scott free.