Red Mosquito

VinylGuy wrote:

scrub12 wrote:It is kind of strange that the track list for the new album still isn't out and then these leak.

If you have an album release date, a title, a single, and artwork, then how is the track list not out?

This is really weird...and they decided how many songs are in the album, yet they dont know which ones. Fucking weird.

stip wrote:

--- wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

--- wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:If the last 2 slbums were full of songs like these I believe the "hardcores" - those that travel for a dozen shows a tour would be more on board with them. The less hardcore would have completely dropped off the band. They'd be 3 or 4 lines down on a major festival poster and the general music listening public (I'm talking like Stereogum or Consequence of Sound readers, people who go to music festivals) would have written them off and they would be looking at a career like where John Mellencamp, Jackson Browne, Black Crowes or Los Lobos are right now. Not a bad thing, but people would be whining about why they're stuck in this lot instead of conquering fesitvals. My comments here are not about commercial success, but about relevance, two different things.

seriously, who gives a shit about any of this?

People do. I do. They're going for the mid-tier PJ fan, who are worthy PJ fans. I know I'm a "fanboy" defender on here, but I've gone to a dozen shows, have never traveled to see them. In my mind, I'm a hardcore fan, but nothing like some people. I think there's a certain breed of music lover they want to connect to in the modern era. Not everyone can be pleased and can be on board. I'm using "festival headliner" not in some kind of commercially competitive way, but as a benchmark for what sort of fans might be exposed and could dig the music. Those fans would probably shy away from posting around here and probably only go to shows when they're in town, but they're still fans who love music.

The point is that I - and many music fans - don't really give a shit about any fan demographics beyond how the intensity of the band's considerations of such things impacts their songwriting. Fixating on precisely these extra-compositional issues prevents Pearl Jam from keeping their collective eyes on the ball, and - as evidenced by these releases - the music is the poorer for it.

I think there is a difference between writing songs that you think are going to be popular, and writing songs that you think will be fun to play live. I think pearl jam has definitely moved in the later direction. It's not always a good thing, but there is still (I think) an important distinction to be made here.

warehouse wrote:

stip wrote:

warehouse wrote:if these were avocado demos, they should have have picked this up as soon as they started writing for backspacer. how the hell can a band hide 2 songs like this and release backspacer? wtf?

I keep beating this dead horse, but Backspacer is trying to do something different, and was a bright, refreshing album after 3 heavy albums. It is hard to compare to this, since it is trying to do something totally different. It was a necessary break, I think, and if we get another two albums out of pearl jam I think it'll be remembered that way, especially if they go back to heavier stuff. They may not of course--the arguments about writing for live crowds certainly has something going for it.

i know backspacer is trying to do something different, but that doesnt make it any good.

--- wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:PJ's entire artistic value to me is about how it has taken on it's own life within it's fans.

Huh. I always derived PJ's artistic value from their art.

Different strokes, I guess.

ilpazzo wrote:Listening to LiR again, and thinking this is a Gossard track... Does anyone else think it sounds like Fatal's edgier sibling?

stip wrote: Different strokes, but that's a legit position that Tuolumne is articulating. Michael Stipe, for instance, used to introduce Losing My Religion by saying 'this is your song--we just cover it'. It's focusing on the shared experience of the art, rather than the art in isolation.

harmless wrote:How many times did you say you've seen them? 20 times? That's not a casual fan, that's someone who's too easily pleased.

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:How many times did you say you've seen them? 20 times? That's not a casual fan, that's someone who's too easily pleased.

hey, I've seen them 20 times!

Strat wrote:

warehouse wrote:

Strat wrote:

warehouse wrote:

Strat wrote:

warehouse wrote:

EJ wrote:

Tuolumne wrote: To connect to fans is not an artistic approach?

that sounds like the polar opposite of art.

dont artists make art with the intention of it causing a reaction?

Within themselves...

so why do they release it to the public?

You'd have to ask them but do you really think the best art is made with the sole intention of soliciting yeah yeah yeahs from the audience?

I know I keep bringing up Neil, and maybe its unfair, but artists like him, dylan etc... Do not make art for the sake of pleasing a fan base. They make their art for themselves and if lucky - fans will grab onto it. If not? They dont give a shit and they keep soldiering on their own path.

yeah, thats unfair, stop comparing them to neil young.

When they stop harping on about Uncle Neil and all theyve learned from him...

I will...

EJ wrote:

JimX6 wrote:
That to me is a huge bummer. I can't stand Bruce's music.

Same here. And, unfortunately, I agree that's the direction Ed seems to be the most influenced by recently. Songs like Gone, Unemployable, and Unthought Known (the bridge), just scream Bruce to me. I haven't heard Future Days yet, but I'm guessing there's some in there too.

Strat wrote:

HardTI wrote:I hate that stupid effects pedal mike is using at the end of Let It Ride. He used that all during the 2003 tour. Cant. Fucking. Stand it.
What is that effect called?

I think its his rotovibe

stip wrote:

Strat wrote:

warehouse wrote:

Strat wrote:

warehouse wrote:

Strat wrote:

warehouse wrote:

EJ wrote:

Tuolumne wrote: To connect to fans is not an artistic approach?

that sounds like the polar opposite of art.

dont artists make art with the intention of it causing a reaction?

Within themselves...

so why do they release it to the public?

You'd have to ask them but do you really think the best art is made with the sole intention of soliciting yeah yeah yeahs from the audience?

I know I keep bringing up Neil, and maybe its unfair, but artists like him, dylan etc... Do not make art for the sake of pleasing a fan base. They make their art for themselves and if lucky - fans will grab onto it. If not? They dont give a shit and they keep soldiering on their own path.

yeah, thats unfair, stop comparing them to neil young.

When they stop harping on about Uncle Neil and all theyve learned from him...

I will...

it is unfair--you really need a band to band/ solo to solo comparison.

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

Strat wrote:

warehouse wrote:

EJ wrote:

Tuolumne wrote: To connect to fans is not an artistic approach?

that sounds like the polar opposite of art.

dont artists make art with the intention of it causing a reaction?

Within themselves...

Any artist worth their salt wants their music heard. They want a reaction, no matter how divisive. I respect that some people dont dig the recent stuff, but I'd be really bummed if it was NOT getting some divisive reactions. To me it would be an artistic failure if it wasn't sparking any kind of reaction at all. That's sort of where I'm going at with my previous comments, even if I couldn't articulate them completely. They may not be reaching Joe Blow pop fan, but they are getting traction with a certain kind of music fan that likes PJ but at a certain distance. This is a better artistic life than just a bunch of completely satiated fans. The early years did that (as part of the grunge movement, which made all kinds of waves back in the day) and the middle period (No Code through Riot Act a huge contingent of fans hated, don't we remember this?). If it just neatly settled in without ruffling any feathers at all with 100% of the fans happy I think that's a lesser artistic result than a 50/50 split. I prefer the 50/50 split. Every artist wants to be heard. Anyone that says anything else is talking out of their ass.

Every PJ song since the year dot has been divisive. Your argument holds no water. Cold Concession and Let It Ride would've had a divisive response among fans. But they would've been great songs, not shit ones.

stip wrote:

EJ wrote:

JimX6 wrote:
That to me is a huge bummer. I can't stand Bruce's music.

Same here. And, unfortunately, I agree that's the direction Ed seems to be the most influenced by recently. Songs like Gone, Unemployable, and Unthought Known (the bridge), just scream Bruce to me. I haven't heard Future Days yet, but I'm guessing there's some in there too.

i think this is true, and too bad, since Springsteen is hit or miss and Eddie doesn't seem to be latching onto his strongest moments.

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

Strat wrote:

warehouse wrote:

EJ wrote:

Tuolumne wrote: To connect to fans is not an artistic approach?

that sounds like the polar opposite of art.

dont artists make art with the intention of it causing a reaction?

Within themselves...

Any artist worth their salt wants their music heard. They want a reaction, no matter how divisive. I respect that some people dont dig the recent stuff, but I'd be really bummed if it was NOT getting some divisive reactions. To me it would be an artistic failure if it wasn't sparking any kind of reaction at all. That's sort of where I'm going at with my previous comments, even if I couldn't articulate them completely. They may not be reaching Joe Blow pop fan, but they are getting traction with a certain kind of music fan that likes PJ but at a certain distance. This is a better artistic life than just a bunch of completely satiated fans. The early years did that (as part of the grunge movement, which made all kinds of waves back in the day) and the middle period (No Code through Riot Act a huge contingent of fans hated, don't we remember this?). If it just neatly settled in without ruffling any feathers at all with 100% of the fans happy I think that's a lesser artistic result than a 50/50 split. I prefer the 50/50 split. Every artist wants to be heard. Anyone that says anything else is talking out of their ass.

Every PJ song since the year dot has been divisive. Your argument holds no water. Cold Concession and Let It Ride would've had a divisive response among fans. But they would've been great songs, not shit ones.

if they were great songs they probably wouldn't have been divisive

Coach wrote:I'm most interested in answers to the following questions:

Who leaked these?

How were they leaked?

Why were they leaked?

Are there more to come?

Conspiracy theory: Someone close to the band didn't like the bashing of the new material...

More realistic theory: B-sides randomly leak.

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

Strat wrote:

warehouse wrote:

EJ wrote:

Tuolumne wrote: To connect to fans is not an artistic approach?

that sounds like the polar opposite of art.

dont artists make art with the intention of it causing a reaction?

Within themselves...

Any artist worth their salt wants their music heard. They want a reaction, no matter how divisive. I respect that some people dont dig the recent stuff, but I'd be really bummed if it was NOT getting some divisive reactions. To me it would be an artistic failure if it wasn't sparking any kind of reaction at all. That's sort of where I'm going at with my previous comments, even if I couldn't articulate them completely. They may not be reaching Joe Blow pop fan, but they are getting traction with a certain kind of music fan that likes PJ but at a certain distance. This is a better artistic life than just a bunch of completely satiated fans. The early years did that (as part of the grunge movement, which made all kinds of waves back in the day) and the middle period (No Code through Riot Act a huge contingent of fans hated, don't we remember this?). If it just neatly settled in without ruffling any feathers at all with 100% of the fans happy I think that's a lesser artistic result than a 50/50 split. I prefer the 50/50 split. Every artist wants to be heard. Anyone that says anything else is talking out of their ass.

Every PJ song since the year dot has been divisive. Your argument holds no water. Cold Concession and Let It Ride would've had a divisive response among fans. But they would've been great songs, not shit ones.

if they were great songs they probably wouldn't have been divisive

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

EJ wrote:

JimX6 wrote:
That to me is a huge bummer. I can't stand Bruce's music.

Same here. And, unfortunately, I agree that's the direction Ed seems to be the most influenced by recently. Songs like Gone, Unemployable, and Unthought Known (the bridge), just scream Bruce to me. I haven't heard Future Days yet, but I'm guessing there's some in there too.

i think this is true, and too bad, since Springsteen is hit or miss and Eddie doesn't seem to be latching onto his strongest moments.

Maybe he likes all the worst bits.