Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

greendisease wrote:

Fattie_Vedder wrote:

McParadigm wrote:S/T should feel like an electrical current, running directly from the heart to the amps. That’s what the subject matter needs, and that’s what this band is usually better at than any of their peers.

Instead, it feels like their most calculatedly operatic album. It is lecturing. Confident. Professional. Inappropriate. There’s a profound disconnect between how hard the subject matter should hit…and how much it actually does.

What do you think that’s more of a byproduct of: the music, the lyrics, something else?

For me, it’s such an inconsistent album. A few great songs, a few just plain bad ones, and several decent ones that I don’t often yearn to listen to that much. For me it’s a combination of the composition (some are just boring) and some just feel grating; it has a general harshness around the edges that feels like it’s trying to mimic vs. or Vitalogy but doesn’t feel the same at all. Ed’s often screechy voice at times doesn’t help at all.

As much as I don't agree I can see what you mean. Either way it easily has the best three-song opening of any of their albums even if you don't like the rest.

I respect that opinion, and may even agree

Thank you!

tragabigzanda wrote:I agree it’s their most inconsistent. I think McP’s criticisms are true sometimes but not all the time.

There are songs, and sometimes just parts of songs, that are delivered with the sort of clear-eyed, full-throated, heart-on-sleeve self awareness that befit the band that started with Ten and made it through 15 years of madness. Then there are the middling songs that do feel operatic and engineered, with varying results; they feel searching, both lyrically and conceptually. Then there’s crap like Gone.

S/T may be the first time they set out to make a statement album. They even described it as an almost rock opera during press at time. And I think that caused some moments to be overwritten.

They're also (I think) trying to respond to the weariness of Riot Act with a charge of righteous energy that they leaned into just a bit too much. There are times it works great, and there are times it doesn't serve the feel of the songs.

If, like Riot Act, Gigaton is a more introspective reflection on a dark moment in history (which it is) I wonder if an album like Dark Matter will pull off more succesfully what S/T was trying to do as its equivalent almost twenty years ago

E.H. Ruddock wrote:S/T is better than Riot Act. There i said it

It's higher in my rankings. Based largely on how great it's A side is

E.H. Ruddock wrote:S/T is better than Riot Act. There i said it

Absolutely here for this.

This has gotten off track though. Super pumped for the new album, from all accounts it's going to knock Vitalogy off the top spot. Incredible at this stage of their career.

welcome back to the board, greendisease!

stip wrote:welcome back to the board, greendisease!

Thanks my man. Exciting times.

stip wrote: If, like Riot Act, Gigaton is a more introspective reflection on a dark moment in history (which it is) I wonder if an album like Dark Matter will pull off more succesfully what S/T was trying to do as its equivalent almost twenty years ago

Really enticing idea, stip...I like this

stip wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:I agree it’s their most inconsistent. I think McP’s criticisms are true sometimes but not all the time.

There are songs, and sometimes just parts of songs, that are delivered with the sort of clear-eyed, full-throated, heart-on-sleeve self awareness that befit the band that started with Ten and made it through 15 years of madness. Then there are the middling songs that do feel operatic and engineered, with varying results; they feel searching, both lyrically and conceptually. Then there’s crap like Gone.

S/T may be the first time they set out to make a statement album. They even described it as an almost rock opera during press at time. And I think that caused some moments to be overwritten.

They're also (I think) trying to respond to the weariness of Riot Act with a charge of righteous energy that they leaned into just a bit too much. There are times it works great, and there are times it doesn't serve the feel of the songs.

If, like Riot Act, Gigaton is a more introspective reflection on a dark moment in history (which it is) I wonder if an album like Dark Matter will pull off more succesfully what S/T was trying to do as its equivalent almost twenty years ago

Well said. This may just be the most insightful Stip insight of his insightedness.

greendisease wrote:

stip wrote:

greendisease wrote:

Fattie_Vedder wrote:

McParadigm wrote:S/T should feel like an electrical current, running directly from the heart to the amps. That’s what the subject matter needs, and that’s what this band is usually better at than any of their peers.

Instead, it feels like their most calculatedly operatic album. It is lecturing. Confident. Professional. Inappropriate. There’s a profound disconnect between how hard the subject matter should hit…and how much it actually does.

What do you think that’s more of a byproduct of: the music, the lyrics, something else?

For me, it’s such an inconsistent album. A few great songs, a few just plain bad ones, and several decent ones that I don’t often yearn to listen to that much. For me it’s a combination of the composition (some are just boring) and some just feel grating; it has a general harshness around the edges that feels like it’s trying to mimic vs. or Vitalogy but doesn’t feel the same at all. Ed’s often screechy voice at times doesn’t help at all.

As much as I don't agree I can see what you mean. Either way it easily has the best three-song opening of any of their albums even if you don't like the rest.

I respect that opinion, and may even agree

Thank you!

Alas, I dislike 2/3 of those opening trio of songs. I love Life Wasted; one of their best openers. I like parts of comatose, but it’s also grating. I know there are folks here that love WWS, and that’s great, but something about the chord progression and strumming is so irritating to me.

The best opening trio of is either Brain of J > Faithful > No Way or Last Exit > Spin The Black Circle > Not For You. And those are my no. 1 and 2 albums.

greendisease wrote:

Fattie_Vedder wrote:

McParadigm wrote:S/T should feel like an electrical current, running directly from the heart to the amps. That’s what the subject matter needs, and that’s what this band is usually better at than any of their peers.

Instead, it feels like their most calculatedly operatic album. It is lecturing. Confident. Professional. Inappropriate. There’s a profound disconnect between how hard the subject matter should hit…and how much it actually does.

What do you think that’s more of a byproduct of: the music, the lyrics, something else?

For me, it’s such an inconsistent album. A few great songs, a few just plain bad ones, and several decent ones that I don’t often yearn to listen to that much. For me it’s a combination of the composition (some are just boring) and some just feel grating; it has a general harshness around the edges that feels like it’s trying to mimic vs. or Vitalogy but doesn’t feel the same at all. Ed’s often screechy voice at times doesn’t help at all.

As much as I don't agree I can see what you mean. Either way it easily has the best three-song opening of any of their albums even if you don't like the rest.

Recency Bias ? (Though admittedly not that recent).

Better than Once-Eveflow-Alive?

Sure sure. We’re all jaded on two of those three after 33 years of live shows but….just assess objectively. How can that not be the best? I rarely listen to them these days but I don’t think the 1-2-3 of S/T holds a candle. I’ll take gig’s 1-3 over Avo as well. Yield for sure.

Vs? Yeah prob that too. Avo is mid tier is pretty much every category, though I really enjoy a handful of tracks (life wasted, marker, parachutes, job, army).

DDWJMUVW wrote:

greendisease wrote:

Fattie_Vedder wrote:

McParadigm wrote:S/T should feel like an electrical current, running directly from the heart to the amps. That’s what the subject matter needs, and that’s what this band is usually better at than any of their peers.

Instead, it feels like their most calculatedly operatic album. It is lecturing. Confident. Professional. Inappropriate. There’s a profound disconnect between how hard the subject matter should hit…and how much it actually does.

What do you think that’s more of a byproduct of: the music, the lyrics, something else?

For me, it’s such an inconsistent album. A few great songs, a few just plain bad ones, and several decent ones that I don’t often yearn to listen to that much. For me it’s a combination of the composition (some are just boring) and some just feel grating; it has a general harshness around the edges that feels like it’s trying to mimic vs. or Vitalogy but doesn’t feel the same at all. Ed’s often screechy voice at times doesn’t help at all.

As much as I don't agree I can see what you mean. Either way it easily has the best three-song opening of any of their albums even if you don't like the rest.

Recency Bias ? (Though admittedly not that recent).

Better than Once-Eveflow-Alive?

Sure sure. We’re all jaded on two of those three after 33 years of live shows but….just assess objectively. How can that not be the best? I rarely listen to them these days but I don’t think the 1-2-3 of S/T holds a candle. I’ll take gig’s 1-3 over Avo as well. Yield for sure.

Vs? Yeah prob that too. Avo is mid tier is pretty much every category, though I really enjoy a handful of tracks (life wasted, marker, parachutes, job, army).

Alive is my favorite song, and while I do love all three of those, there are only two 3 5 star song runs that kick off an album (to my taste)

Life Wasted -> WWS -> Comatose

and

Who Ever Said -> SBWM -> Dance


Just barely beating out Go -> Animal -> Daughter

DDWJMUVW wrote:

greendisease wrote:

Fattie_Vedder wrote:

McParadigm wrote:S/T should feel like an electrical current, running directly from the heart to the amps. That’s what the subject matter needs, and that’s what this band is usually better at than any of their peers.

Instead, it feels like their most calculatedly operatic album. It is lecturing. Confident. Professional. Inappropriate. There’s a profound disconnect between how hard the subject matter should hit…and how much it actually does.

What do you think that’s more of a byproduct of: the music, the lyrics, something else?

For me, it’s such an inconsistent album. A few great songs, a few just plain bad ones, and several decent ones that I don’t often yearn to listen to that much. For me it’s a combination of the composition (some are just boring) and some just feel grating; it has a general harshness around the edges that feels like it’s trying to mimic vs. or Vitalogy but doesn’t feel the same at all. Ed’s often screechy voice at times doesn’t help at all.

As much as I don't agree I can see what you mean. Either way it easily has the best three-song opening of any of their albums even if you don't like the rest.

Recency Bias ? (Though admittedly not that recent).

Better than Once-Eveflow-Alive?

Sure sure. We’re all jaded on two of those three after 33 years of live shows but….just assess objectively. How can that not be the best? I rarely listen to them these days but I don’t think the 1-2-3 of S/T holds a candle. I’ll take gig’s 1-3 over Avo as well. Yield for sure.

Vs? Yeah prob that too. Avo is mid tier is pretty much every category, though I really enjoy a handful of tracks (life wasted, marker, parachutes, job, army).

I’ll rephrase: my favorite trio of openers are the ones I listed. Even more so than Ten.

However, that does make me want to test the impact of recency bias. I have not really listened to Ten in probably a decade. Not intentionally, I’ve just not really craved listening to Ten. So, I think I’ll do exactly that and see what it conjures up again.

Action research!

stip wrote:

DDWJMUVW wrote:

greendisease wrote:

Fattie_Vedder wrote:

McParadigm wrote:S/T should feel like an electrical current, running directly from the heart to the amps. That’s what the subject matter needs, and that’s what this band is usually better at than any of their peers.

Instead, it feels like their most calculatedly operatic album. It is lecturing. Confident. Professional. Inappropriate. There’s a profound disconnect between how hard the subject matter should hit…and how much it actually does.

What do you think that’s more of a byproduct of: the music, the lyrics, something else?

For me, it’s such an inconsistent album. A few great songs, a few just plain bad ones, and several decent ones that I don’t often yearn to listen to that much. For me it’s a combination of the composition (some are just boring) and some just feel grating; it has a general harshness around the edges that feels like it’s trying to mimic vs. or Vitalogy but doesn’t feel the same at all. Ed’s often screechy voice at times doesn’t help at all.

As much as I don't agree I can see what you mean. Either way it easily has the best three-song opening of any of their albums even if you don't like the rest.

Recency Bias ? (Though admittedly not that recent).

Better than Once-Eveflow-Alive?

Sure sure. We’re all jaded on two of those three after 33 years of live shows but….just assess objectively. How can that not be the best? I rarely listen to them these days but I don’t think the 1-2-3 of S/T holds a candle. I’ll take gig’s 1-3 over Avo as well. Yield for sure.

Vs? Yeah prob that too. Avo is mid tier is pretty much every category, though I really enjoy a handful of tracks (life wasted, marker, parachutes, job, army).

Alive is my favorite song, and while I do love all three of those, there are only two 3 5 star song runs that kick off an album (to my taste)

Life Wasted -> WWS -> Comatose

and

Who Ever Said -> SBWM -> Dance


Just barely beating out Go -> Animal -> Daughter

This is bang on.

tragabigzanda wrote:B please delete my account

What happened?

greendisease wrote:

stip wrote:

DDWJMUVW wrote:

greendisease wrote:

Fattie_Vedder wrote:

McParadigm wrote:S/T should feel like an electrical current, running directly from the heart to the amps. That’s what the subject matter needs, and that’s what this band is usually better at than any of their peers.

Instead, it feels like their most calculatedly operatic album. It is lecturing. Confident. Professional. Inappropriate. There’s a profound disconnect between how hard the subject matter should hit…and how much it actually does.

What do you think that’s more of a byproduct of: the music, the lyrics, something else?

For me, it’s such an inconsistent album. A few great songs, a few just plain bad ones, and several decent ones that I don’t often yearn to listen to that much. For me it’s a combination of the composition (some are just boring) and some just feel grating; it has a general harshness around the edges that feels like it’s trying to mimic vs. or Vitalogy but doesn’t feel the same at all. Ed’s often screechy voice at times doesn’t help at all.

As much as I don't agree I can see what you mean. Either way it easily has the best three-song opening of any of their albums even if you don't like the rest.

Recency Bias ? (Though admittedly not that recent).

Better than Once-Eveflow-Alive?

Sure sure. We’re all jaded on two of those three after 33 years of live shows but….just assess objectively. How can that not be the best? I rarely listen to them these days but I don’t think the 1-2-3 of S/T holds a candle. I’ll take gig’s 1-3 over Avo as well. Yield for sure.

Vs? Yeah prob that too. Avo is mid tier is pretty much every category, though I really enjoy a handful of tracks (life wasted, marker, parachutes, job, army).

Alive is my favorite song, and while I do love all three of those, there are only two 3 5 star song runs that kick off an album (to my taste)

Life Wasted -> WWS -> Comatose

and

Who Ever Said -> SBWM -> Dance


Just barely beating out Go -> Animal -> Daughter

This is bang on.

Songs on ST I like better than WWS:

Life wasted
Severed
MITS
Parachutes
Unemployable
Inside Job
Army Reserve
Comatose


But, for me, no 5 star on that record. Wasted (no, not reprise!) and marker are probably 4 stars.

No way and faithful are both 5, with brain a 4. That’s a high score for 1/2/3.


But, man the 1-3 slot on ten just gets all 5s, even though I’m a bit cynical about evenflow as many are at this stage.

greendisease wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:S/T is better than Riot Act. There i said it

Absolutely here for this.

This has gotten off track though. Super pumped for the new album, from all accounts it's going to knock Vitalogy off the top spot.Incredible at this stage of their career.

What?!