Red Mosquito

dimejinky99 wrote:

Mecca wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:

Mecca wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Luke lands on a swamp planet with 'massive life form' readings and downs his ship at the front door of the very guy he went to look for.


Not one person even the most cynical complaining just to complain fucker (not even LV) has ever brought that up.

the force led him there

Yeah, this is what I thought

It's what I always thought too. But then nobody ever brings that up and accepts it yet they have huge problems with Rey suddenly being Force capable..in a movie called the force awakens.

because we've had 6 movies establishing that training is required to actively use the force

Not really. Anakin as a child was naturally adept-pod racing ability and intuition beyond his years. As was Luke.

being adept at pod-racing and battling a trained sith with a lightsaber are pretty different

dimejinky99 wrote:

Mecca wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:

Mecca wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Luke lands on a swamp planet with 'massive life form' readings and downs his ship at the front door of the very guy he went to look for.


Not one person even the most cynical complaining just to complain fucker (not even LV) has ever brought that up.

the force led him there

Yeah, this is what I thought

It's what I always thought too. But then nobody ever brings that up and accepts it yet they have huge problems with Rey suddenly being Force capable..in a movie called the force awakens.

because we've had 6 movies establishing that training is required to actively use the force

Not really. Anakin as a child was naturally adept-pod racing ability and intuition beyond his years. As was Luke.

thats passive force

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Mecca wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:

Mecca wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Luke lands on a swamp planet with 'massive life form' readings and downs his ship at the front door of the very guy he went to look for.


Not one person even the most cynical complaining just to complain fucker (not even LV) has ever brought that up.

the force led him there

Yeah, this is what I thought

It's what I always thought too. But then nobody ever brings that up and accepts it yet they have huge problems with Rey suddenly being Force capable..in a movie called the force awakens.

because we've had 6 movies establishing that training is required to actively use the force

Not really. Anakin as a child was naturally adept-pod racing ability and intuition beyond his years. As was Luke.

being adept at pod-racing and battling a trained sith with a lightsaber are pretty different

Good thing no one battles a trained sith with a lightsaber then.

These are movies about magical unseen powers, aliens and light speed space travel. I don't really read too much into "stuff that isn't believable" in them.

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:These are movies about magical unseen powers, aliens and light speed space travel. I don't really read too much into "stuff that isn't believable" in them.

there's a difference between that and "stuff that isn't believable within the universe that has been established"

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Mecca wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:

Mecca wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Luke lands on a swamp planet with 'massive life form' readings and downs his ship at the front door of the very guy he went to look for.


Not one person even the most cynical complaining just to complain fucker (not even LV) has ever brought that up.

the force led him there

Yeah, this is what I thought

It's what I always thought too. But then nobody ever brings that up and accepts it yet they have huge problems with Rey suddenly being Force capable..in a movie called the force awakens.

because we've had 6 movies establishing that training is required to actively use the force

Not really. Anakin as a child was naturally adept-pod racing ability and intuition beyond his years. As was Luke.

being adept at pod-racing and battling a trained sith with a lightsaber are pretty different

Good thing no one battles a trained sith with a lightsaber then.

Oh what the fuck ever, trained Jedi that went bad or whatever the hell he is. You know what I mean.

Mecca wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:These are movies about magical unseen powers, aliens and light speed space travel. I don't really read too much into "stuff that isn't believable" in them.

there's a difference between that and "stuff that isn't believable within the universe that has been established"

True, but at the same time:

-It was established that Ren wasn't fully trained either

-Ren is in a difficult emotional headspace due to him killing Han, which may have f'd him up

-The dude was bleeding to death after being shot in the stomach by the bowcaster that the movie fell all over itself establishing how powerful it was.

-Rey may be really powerful

-Force sensitive people CAN use their powers without training provided they instinctively figure out how to open themselves up to it (Anakin pod-racing, Luke making the shot at the end of A New Hope). Given how instinctive the light saber training seems to be (about opening yourself up to the force and letting it guide you), this seems like a translatable skill (which is how the movie sold it)

So can an extremely powerful (probably) force sensitive person beat a powerful but not fully trained half dead mentally fucked up jedi? That seems perfectly reasonable.

Just kill me

BurtReynolds wrote:Just kill me

we put this forum in place so you wouldnt be tempted

Mecca wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Just kill me

we put this forum in place so you wouldnt be tempted

It called to me.

Oh wait there is a star wars forum now? Good job mods.

This is only the beginning, Burt.

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:This is only the beginning, Burt.

can we block burt from this forum?

Wait I want to talk about star wars now.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Mecca wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:

Mecca wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Luke lands on a swamp planet with 'massive life form' readings and downs his ship at the front door of the very guy he went to look for.


Not one person even the most cynical complaining just to complain fucker (not even LV) has ever brought that up.

the force led him there

Yeah, this is what I thought

It's what I always thought too. But then nobody ever brings that up and accepts it yet they have huge problems with Rey suddenly being Force capable..in a movie called the force awakens.

because we've had 6 movies establishing that training is required to actively use the force

Not really. Anakin as a child was naturally adept-pod racing ability and intuition beyond his years. As was Luke.

being adept at pod-racing and battling a trained sith with a lightsaber are pretty different

Good thing no one battles a trained sith with a lightsaber then.

Oh what the fuck ever, trained Jedi that went bad or whatever the hell he is. You know what I mean.

BurtReynolds wrote:Wait I want to talk about star wars now.

You're drunk

In all seriousness though, there are a lot of problems with The Force Awakens. There are a lot of things that people take issue with, and maybe I don't, but I understand the criticism... but for the life of me, complaining about Rey's abilities just... really confounds me.

What's confounding about it? She's a walking, talking Deus Ex Machina.

it's a structural problem either way: Either Rey is an invincible Mary Sue or Ren is an incompetent weakling, but either way there is no drama in that scene because there is not much danger to the protagonist. But it was funny watching Finn get his ass kicked yet again. That poor dude can't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

BurtReynolds wrote:What's confounding about it? She's a walking, talking Deus Ex Machina.

it's a structural problem either way: Either Rey is an invincible Mary Sue or Ren is an incompetent weakling, but either way there is no drama in that scene because there is not much danger to the protagonist. But it was funny watching Finn get his ass kicked yet again. That poor dude can't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

Confounding.

BurtReynolds wrote:What's confounding about it? She's a walking, talking Deus Ex Machina.

it's a structural problem either way: Either Rey is an invincible Mary Sue or Ren is an incompetent weakling, but either way there is no drama in that scene because there is not much danger to the protagonist. But it was funny watching Finn get his ass kicked yet again. That poor dude can't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

That's a nonsense critique in the post prequel world. The OT really restricted what Jedi could do (which I preferred). But after the prequels where major character after major character could basically do everything all the powerful Jedi are going to have a similar skill set. Rey does nothing that Obi-Wan or Anakin didn't do, and more (really she's not that much different than Luke, a crazy good pilot with force powers who could also talk to droids. I guess she was a better mechanic). Yes, she's more powerful than Han Solo, but that's no longer a benchmark for Jedi.

She's also no different than half the characters populating super hero movies, other than her boobs.


And as established, Ren was half dead when they fought, and conflicted about what he had done (this plays out nicely in the 'you need a teacher' exchange during their duel, as well as other places), which limits a Jedi's ability to use the force.


There are some plot problems in Force Awakens, but this really isn't one of them.