Red Mosquito

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:The sad thing is that a good portion of the audience don't like to be challenged. They want an easy story.

Except LV. no story for him, thanks.

Also, yea, when Luke died i was still trying to wrap my head around what he had just done. I wasn't ready for any of it.

Hate leads to suffering, Anders.

that moment played so much better for me the second time since I spent too much time the first viewing trying to figure out what was happening and then not really believing it

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:Hate leads to suffering, Anders.

That's what I am saying.

Strat wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:The sad thing is that a good portion of the audience don't like to be challenged. They want an easy story.

Except LV. no story for him, thanks.

Also, yea, when Luke died i was still trying to wrap my head around what he had just done. I wasn't ready for any of it.

For me, while TFA was enjoyable - it was linear and predictable. TLJ gave me whiplash with the amount of twists and turns in the story. I loved that aspect.

stip wrote:that moment played so much better for me the second time since I spent too much time the first viewing trying to figure out what was happening and then not really believing it

In 2 days I'll see it for the second time. I can't wait.

I liked it a lot the first viewing. On the second viewing I think it may be my favorite star wars movie. Going again tomorrow night with the Mrs.

dimejinky99 wrote:

stip wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:OH god.
The red letter media review is out and the TLJ hate brigade are using it as their new favourite argument.

Ugh.

what did they say?

They hate it. ‘But they’d have a well thought out articulate argument about WHY ITS THE WORST FILM EVER MADE!’

Apparently

Listening to it now. Everything makes sense so far.

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:I'm so glad that Rian took this path in regards to Rey's parents. I hope JJ sticks with it through EP IX.

On another note, while Rian killed off Luke - he did it in such an amazing and unexpected way. Only when we see Luke fade, was when I realised what was happening. A sad but amazing moment.

I fucking love Rian for what he did with some of these aspects.

Yeah, his handling of Luke's passing was expert. It was completely satisfying in every way. Those that wanted the most powerful Jedi ever, got it. Those that wanted quiet reflection, got it. Those that wanted an epic battle, to see him light up a saber and go after it, they got it too. It was outstanding.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:I'm so glad that Rian took this path in regards to Rey's parents. I hope JJ sticks with it through EP IX.

On another note, while Rian killed off Luke - he did it in such an amazing and unexpected way. Only when we see Luke fade, was when I realised what was happening. A sad but amazing moment.

I fucking love Rian for what he did with some of these aspects.

Yeah, his handling of Luke's passing was expert. It was completely satisfying in every way. Those that wanted the most powerful Jedi ever, got it. Those that wanted quiet reflection, got it. Those that wanted an epic battle, to see him light up a saber and go after it, they got it too. It was outstanding.

What did I want from Luke? To be powerful? Yes. Quiet reflection? Yes, if executed right. Epic battle with a lightsaber? Absolutely. Don't really think we got any of it. Then he died.

Anders wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:I'm so glad that Rian took this path in regards to Rey's parents. I hope JJ sticks with it through EP IX.

On another note, while Rian killed off Luke - he did it in such an amazing and unexpected way. Only when we see Luke fade, was when I realised what was happening. A sad but amazing moment.

I fucking love Rian for what he did with some of these aspects.

Yeah, his handling of Luke's passing was expert. It was completely satisfying in every way. Those that wanted the most powerful Jedi ever, got it. Those that wanted quiet reflection, got it. Those that wanted an epic battle, to see him light up a saber and go after it, they got it too. It was outstanding.

What did I want from Luke? To be powerful? Yes. Quiet reflection? Yes, if executed right. Epic battle with a lightsaber? Absolutely. Don't really think we got any of it. Then he died.

These discussions are really difficult because there seems to be this disconnect between objectivity and subjectivity. I get that people didn't like things about the movie. There's plenty that I don't like. So that's not the issue. But it's impossible to have a conversation when people just refuse to acknowledge facts. Not how the events made one feel, but the fact of the event itself.

You can hate that Han was frozen in carbonite. But you can't argue that he was, in fact, frozen in carbonite. You may not like how Luke's power was manifested but he absolutely was powerful. You can say you don't like the way the battle scene was handled. But you can't say there was no battle.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Anders wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:I'm so glad that Rian took this path in regards to Rey's parents. I hope JJ sticks with it through EP IX.

On another note, while Rian killed off Luke - he did it in such an amazing and unexpected way. Only when we see Luke fade, was when I realised what was happening. A sad but amazing moment.

I fucking love Rian for what he did with some of these aspects.

Yeah, his handling of Luke's passing was expert. It was completely satisfying in every way. Those that wanted the most powerful Jedi ever, got it. Those that wanted quiet reflection, got it. Those that wanted an epic battle, to see him light up a saber and go after it, they got it too. It was outstanding.

What did I want from Luke? To be powerful? Yes. Quiet reflection? Yes, if executed right. Epic battle with a lightsaber? Absolutely. Don't really think we got any of it. Then he died.

These discussions are really difficult because there seems to be this disconnect between objectivity and subjectivity. I get that people didn't like things about the movie. There's plenty that I don't like. So that's not the issue. But it's impossible to have a conversation when people just refuse to acknowledge facts. Not how the events made one feel, but the fact of the event itself.

You can hate that Han was frozen in carbonite. But you can't argue that he was, in fact, frozen in carbonite. You may not like how Luke's power was manifested but he absolutely was powerful. You can say you don't like the way the battle scene was handled. But you can't say there was no battle.

I understand what you are saying, but until the last scene he wasn't even using the force at all. Then in the battle he's a projection. It's incredible of course. Can't argue with that. But to me it says very little about how powerful he is, or how he would do in a battle.

yeah i get that.

I was also expecting to see more of him.

Anders wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Anders wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:I'm so glad that Rian took this path in regards to Rey's parents. I hope JJ sticks with it through EP IX.

On another note, while Rian killed off Luke - he did it in such an amazing and unexpected way. Only when we see Luke fade, was when I realised what was happening. A sad but amazing moment.

I fucking love Rian for what he did with some of these aspects.

Yeah, his handling of Luke's passing was expert. It was completely satisfying in every way. Those that wanted the most powerful Jedi ever, got it. Those that wanted quiet reflection, got it. Those that wanted an epic battle, to see him light up a saber and go after it, they got it too. It was outstanding.

What did I want from Luke? To be powerful? Yes. Quiet reflection? Yes, if executed right. Epic battle with a lightsaber? Absolutely. Don't really think we got any of it. Then he died.

These discussions are really difficult because there seems to be this disconnect between objectivity and subjectivity. I get that people didn't like things about the movie. There's plenty that I don't like. So that's not the issue. But it's impossible to have a conversation when people just refuse to acknowledge facts. Not how the events made one feel, but the fact of the event itself.

You can hate that Han was frozen in carbonite. But you can't argue that he was, in fact, frozen in carbonite. You may not like how Luke's power was manifested but he absolutely was powerful. You can say you don't like the way the battle scene was handled. But you can't say there was no battle.

I understand what you are saying, but until the last scene he wasn't even using the force at all. Then in the battle he's a projection. It's incredible of course. Can't argue with that. But to me it says very little about how powerful he is, or how he would do in a battle.

Ever since TFA my middle son has been excitedly talking about seeing Luke train Rey. We've talked about it a few times, and I've mentioned how it would be great to see that happen - with the caveat that we don't really know what's going to happen. I explained how Luke's probably hiding on that island for a reason. For me, this was the predictable already used cookie-cutter story line anyway.

But by mid way through TLJ, I became worried for how my son's going to see this. Seeing Luke, one of his movie heroes, acting in such a way. This was beyond worse than I expected.

By the end, I was relieved and elated. Luke's redemption is beyond anything I expected. From his confrontation with Ren, where he was not only buying time. As we saw from his back story, he didn't really want to kill Ren. So he didn't need to attack him.

And then the holy fuck moment. The switch to him sitting on the rock and starting at the twin suns. My god the chills, and the gasps/cheers in the cinema (midnight screening of course) just made for a memorable moment for me.

I can't wait for my kids to experience that moment.

Anders wrote:

stip wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:Joe is getting anxious with all these opinions.

No one is arguing with your opinions. We are arguing with your apparent fundamental misunderstanding of the text

It’s the difference between not liking betterman because you don’t care for the melody and not liking betterman because you think it’s an upbeat affirmation of two people’s enduring love

That's the most arrogant thing I've read in this thread.

And it's competing with a lot like this:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:The sad thing is that a good portion of the audience don't like to be challenged. They want an easy story.

Thanks.

Stip really got mad there.

I like to think that the force projection power he was using was far beyond most Jedi Knight's grasp. I don't think we've never seen such a thing before. Project himself looking so solid and convincing, to another planet entirely. That must have taken an incredible amount of power.

Anders wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Anders wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:I'm so glad that Rian took this path in regards to Rey's parents. I hope JJ sticks with it through EP IX.

On another note, while Rian killed off Luke - he did it in such an amazing and unexpected way. Only when we see Luke fade, was when I realised what was happening. A sad but amazing moment.

I fucking love Rian for what he did with some of these aspects.

Yeah, his handling of Luke's passing was expert. It was completely satisfying in every way. Those that wanted the most powerful Jedi ever, got it. Those that wanted quiet reflection, got it. Those that wanted an epic battle, to see him light up a saber and go after it, they got it too. It was outstanding.

What did I want from Luke? To be powerful? Yes. Quiet reflection? Yes, if executed right. Epic battle with a lightsaber? Absolutely. Don't really think we got any of it. Then he died.

These discussions are really difficult because there seems to be this disconnect between objectivity and subjectivity. I get that people didn't like things about the movie. There's plenty that I don't like. So that's not the issue. But it's impossible to have a conversation when people just refuse to acknowledge facts. Not how the events made one feel, but the fact of the event itself.

You can hate that Han was frozen in carbonite. But you can't argue that he was, in fact, frozen in carbonite. You may not like how Luke's power was manifested but he absolutely was powerful. You can say you don't like the way the battle scene was handled. But you can't say there was no battle.

I understand what you are saying, but until the last scene he wasn't even using the force at all. Then in the battle he's a projection. It's incredible of course. Can't argue with that. But to me it says very little about how powerful he is, or how he would do in a battle.

Snoke was using this power earlier to help Rey and Ren talk to each other, and what Luke was able to do with it was significantly more powerful

VinylGuy wrote:

Anders wrote:

stip wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:Joe is getting anxious with all these opinions.

No one is arguing with your opinions. We are arguing with your apparent fundamental misunderstanding of the text

It’s the difference between not liking betterman because you don’t care for the melody and not liking betterman because you think it’s an upbeat affirmation of two people’s enduring love

That's the most arrogant thing I've read in this thread.

And it's competing with a lot like this:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:The sad thing is that a good portion of the audience don't like to be challenged. They want an easy story.

Thanks.

Stip really got mad there.

frustrated, not mad, for all the reasons Joey pointed out a few posts above.

Both of you should agree with Anders and me and be happy.

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:

Anders wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Anders wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:I'm so glad that Rian took this path in regards to Rey's parents. I hope JJ sticks with it through EP IX.

On another note, while Rian killed off Luke - he did it in such an amazing and unexpected way. Only when we see Luke fade, was when I realised what was happening. A sad but amazing moment.

I fucking love Rian for what he did with some of these aspects.

Yeah, his handling of Luke's passing was expert. It was completely satisfying in every way. Those that wanted the most powerful Jedi ever, got it. Those that wanted quiet reflection, got it. Those that wanted an epic battle, to see him light up a saber and go after it, they got it too. It was outstanding.

What did I want from Luke? To be powerful? Yes. Quiet reflection? Yes, if executed right. Epic battle with a lightsaber? Absolutely. Don't really think we got any of it. Then he died.

These discussions are really difficult because there seems to be this disconnect between objectivity and subjectivity. I get that people didn't like things about the movie. There's plenty that I don't like. So that's not the issue. But it's impossible to have a conversation when people just refuse to acknowledge facts. Not how the events made one feel, but the fact of the event itself.

You can hate that Han was frozen in carbonite. But you can't argue that he was, in fact, frozen in carbonite. You may not like how Luke's power was manifested but he absolutely was powerful. You can say you don't like the way the battle scene was handled. But you can't say there was no battle.

I understand what you are saying, but until the last scene he wasn't even using the force at all. Then in the battle he's a projection. It's incredible of course. Can't argue with that. But to me it says very little about how powerful he is, or how he would do in a battle.

Ever since TFA my middle son has been excitedly talking about seeing Luke train Rey. We've talked about it a few times, and I've mentioned how it would be great to see that happen - with the caveat that we don't really know what's going to happen. I explained how Luke's probably hiding on that island for a reason. For me, this was the predictable already used cookie-cutter story line anyway.

But by mid way through TLJ, I became worried for how my son's going to see this. Seeing Luke, one of his movie heroes, acting in such a way. This was beyond worse than I expected.

By the end, I was relieved and elated. Luke's redemption is beyond anything I expected. From his confrontation with Ren, where he was not only buying time. As we saw from his back story, he didn't really want to kill Ren. So he didn't need to attack him.

And then the holy fuck moment. The switch to him sitting on the rock and starting at the twin suns. My god the chills, and the gasps/cheers in the cinema (midnight screening of course) just made for a memorable moment for me.

I can't wait for my kids to experience that moment.

I'll write an answer here since you were quoting me. I totally respect you feeling that way, and I am not trying to be difficult, but to me that was as far from a holy fuck moment as possible. To me it was the final confirmation that the movie had gone completely wrong. Like: "there is no way back from this. He just fucked up the SW universe."