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Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Wed April 15, 2020 10:06 pm
by liebzz
“Technically” I think is a loaded term. I don’t judge music by being the hardest to play. And of that we’re the metric, I am not sure Led Zeppelin is the route I would go to get there. I am also not so sure Jimmy Page would be in my top 5 or 10 favorite guitarists at that.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Wed April 15, 2020 10:11 pm
by Ms Harmless
can you tell me a Led Zep song that PJ could never emulate melody-wise? I can't think of one; something like "Whole Lotta Love" kind of has very little melody, in its construction; but the vocals have so much range (more than Ed's) that melody is injected into the skeleton of the song
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Wed April 15, 2020 10:15 pm
by reconstruction_ seeds
PHATJ wrote:I don’t think I could disagree more with reconstruction_seeds or the premise of this thread. It completely misses the point of who and what PJ is and what they do best. And it seems that they’ve completely missed the musical growth and expansion that Gigaton provides. This is the correct direction for Pearl Jam in almost every possible sense.
PHATJ wrote:I don’t think I could disagree more with reconstruction_seeds or the premise of this thread. It completely misses the point of who and what PJ is and what they do best. And it seems that they’ve completely missed the musical growth and expansion that Gigaton provides. This is the correct direction for Pearl Jam in almost every possible sense.
They experimenteda little with dotc, production and a 1 minute jam. Othetwise was standard pj. I don't think they'll keep taking the easy road. I think they will challenge themselves with complex songwriting and try to improve as musicians. if I'm wrong I'll be bored and done as a PJ fan.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Wed April 15, 2020 10:50 pm
by reconstruction_ seeds
Thanks for elaborating. I've got a clearer picture of your criticism now. You'd like the structures to open up a bit and have room for some instrumental interplay free of vocal and lyrical input. That's a valid desire, and you're correct that it's not something that happens very often in recent Pearl Jam music, or at least not to an extent that is particularly notable.
... I do think that increased instrumental interplay could be a good thing, though, a point that you and I agree on.
[/quote]
The instrumental sections In nearly all of the Led Zeppelin songs simply sound great. If I was making the decisions in Pearl Jam I'd say okay we had a great stint doing things the easy way but our own way, which is good. But we've run out of ideas (ways to change up our music), things are about to get redundant and boring and we're not progressing much on our instruments- why not model after the best.
Slow grooving music with instrumental sections and twists and turns. Let the instruments be the focus. It would be a new and exciting direction for them. All their fans would go nuts and they would gain a huge following of fans of the late 60's/70s super groups and even fans of 80s rock.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Wed April 15, 2020 10:54 pm
by reconstruction_ seeds
liebzz wrote:“Technically” I think is a loaded term. I don’t judge music by being the hardest to play. And of that we’re the metric, I am not sure Led Zeppelin is the route I would go to get there. I am also not so sure Jimmy Page would be in my top 5 or 10 favorite guitarists at that.
Name some better rhythm guitarists. Also, their catalog testifies to his song writing.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Wed April 15, 2020 10:56 pm
by liebzz
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Wed April 15, 2020 11:24 pm
by reconstruction_ seeds
liebzz wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/led-zeppelins-10-boldest-rip-offs-223419/amp/
Just sayin’
Led Zeppelin took “some liberties, I must say,” Page admitted. “As far as my end of it goes, I always tried to bring something fresh to anything that I used,” he claimed.
I don't have time to go through each song but for example compare the original babe I'm going to leave you to pages guitar in Led Zeppelin's version. there's nothing in them that's a alike, unless you consider both of them used an acoustic guitar.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 12:00 am
by liebzz
Or that it sounds freakishly like 25 or 6 to 4...
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 12:01 am
by reconstruction_ seeds
Some examples of the slow groove style pj could sound great doing would be about anything from that list i posted including:
"In the Light"
"What is and what should never be"
"No Quarter"
"Dancing Days "
"Ten Years Gone"
"Your time is gonna come"
" When the Levee Breaks"
And if they could aspire to it, the slow meandering style along the lines of The Rain Song and Stairway to Heaven.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 12:08 am
by liebzz
I mean, I think they would sound great taking inspiration from “Can’t You Hear Me Knocking?” or “Midnight Rambler” but that’s just me. I think Mike sounded amazing when he explored a bluesier sound, like in Mad Season, but to each their own.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 12:24 am
by reconstruction_ seeds
liebzz wrote:I mean, I think they would sound great taking inspiration from “Can’t You Hear Me Knocking?” or “Midnight Rambler” but that’s just me. I think Mike sounded amazing when he explored a bluesier sound, like in Mad Season, but to each their own.
I thinks that would sound great too but a couple of reasons why some LZ could appeal to PJ is, for example, In the Light and No Quarter, is an experimental, dark, mysterious vibe (pendulum) and more modern sound with a heavy groove (Quick Escape is is in that direction) and keys.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 1:22 am
by RockPusher
I have decided I hate this stupid thread. You know what potatoes need to do? Taste more like oranges. /blah
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 2:23 am
by PHATJ
RockPusher wrote:I have decided I hate this stupid thread. You know what potatoes need to do? Taste more like oranges. /blah
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 2:25 am
by wease
This guy is pure trolling.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 2:27 am
by PHATJ
He has to be, right?
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 2:56 am
by reconstruction_ seeds
wease wrote:This guy is pure trolling.
I'm zero percent trolling in this thread.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 3:02 am
by reconstruction_ seeds
PHATJ wrote:He has to be, right?
Are you the guy who said he listened to gigaton 12 hours straight and over 300 times in this short span of time? Are you a band member promoting the album (as if u would tell someone) or affiliated with the band or what? is it even possible to like Pearl Jam and gigaton as much as you claim to? You can spin this simple stuff that much and never get a fill of it? Are you serious?! And I've never seen you do anything but glorify this band as much as any band could ever be glorified.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate Pa
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 3:11 am
by Birds in Hell
I wouldn't use Led Zeppelin as my basis for comparison but I do sincerely get the point of this thread and I agree that it would be great to see the band be more instrumentally adventurous. I don't think they see themselves as that kind of band, however.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate P
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 3:20 am
by PHATJ
reconstruction_ seeds wrote:PHATJ wrote:He has to be, right?
Are you the guy who said he listened to gigaton 12 hours straight and over 300 times in this short span of time? Are you a band member promoting the album (as if u would tell someone) or affiliated with the band or what? is it even possible to like Pearl Jam and gigaton as much as you claim to? You can spin this simple stuff that much and never get a fill of it? Are you serious?! And I've never seen you do anything but glorify this band as much as any band could ever be glorified.
You haven’t spent that much time on RM, and you clearly haven’t read anything I’ve said about anything by PJ outside of Gigaton. I’ve spent the last 15 years being disappointed by PJ. I hate Backspacer and LB. so get your shit straight. I did have one day - a Saturday, alone in my house on lockdown, where I was smoking bowls and drinking good beer and I had the album going for 10-12 hours straight. It was awesome. I hadn’t done anything like that since I was a kid with Vitalogy or No Code. I love every song on Gigaton. It might end up being equal to my absolute favorite Pearl Jam music, which also happens to be my favorite music of all time. I loved Led Zeppelin as a teenager and in my 20s. I still respect and love them. But I prefer Pearl Jam by a long shot. Jimmy Page’s playing is amazing, and he’s a genius, but that doesn’t mean Stone and Mike should try to do what he did. Jesus Christ, can’t they just evolve naturally? They already cover every band they want, and Zeppelin isn’t a band they’ve ever shown interest in. This entire idea just seems so silly and juvenile to me. The way you think about music is how I thought about it before I knew a damn thing about music, 30 years ago.
Re: I Cant seem2shake my PJ&LZ comparison.Time to emulate P
Posted: Thu April 16, 2020 3:36 am
by reconstruction_ seeds
PHATJ wrote:reconstruction_ seeds wrote:PHATJ wrote:He has to be, right?
Are you the guy who said he listened to gigaton 12 hours straight and over 300 times in this short span of time? Are you a band member promoting the album (as if u would tell someone) or affiliated with the band or what? is it even possible to like Pearl Jam and gigaton as much as you claim to? You can spin this simple stuff that much and never get a fill of it? Are you serious?! And I've never seen you do anything but glorify this band as much as any band could ever be glorified.
You haven’t spent that much time on RM, and you clearly haven’t read anything I’ve said about anything by PJ outside of Gigaton. I’ve spent the last 15 years being disappointed by PJ. I hate Backspacer and LB. so get your shit straight. I did have one day - a Saturday, alone in my house on lockdown, where I was smoking bowls and drinking good beer and I had the album going for 10-12 hours straight. It was awesome. I hadn’t done anything like that since I was a kid with Vitalogy or No Code. I love every song on Gigaton. It might end up being equal to my absolute favorite Pearl Jam music, which also happens to be my favorite music of all time. I loved Led Zeppelin as a teenager and in my 20s. I still respect and love them. But I prefer Pearl Jam by a long shot. Jimmy Page’s playing is amazing, and he’s a genius, but that doesn’t mean Stone and Mike should try to do what he did. Jesus Christ, can’t they just evolve naturally? They already cover every band they want, and Zeppelin isn’t a band they’ve ever shown interest in. This entire idea just seems so silly and juvenile to me. The way you think about music is how I thought about it before I knew a damn thing about music, 30 years ago.
I dont want to debate much more about it. If you think you wont be totally bored with more of the same from this band in the coming years compared to bands of the past like LZ (there's no band to carry on the torch of awesome, complex and beautiful instrumental arrangements, the kind Page and company created) or just bored in general without comparison, then you're in a better spot than I am with your contentment. Congrats.