Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

Thejambi wrote:Can someone Pm me the version of Pendulum that sounds remotely as phenomenal as Immortality?

Or the coda of "Not For You". Or the intro to "Better Man".

oh come on. Immortality, fine, but I would rather have pendulum on a record than a minute of noodling at the end of NFY or that little linking piece at the start of betterman

The noodling at the end of not for you is the best part of the song and i am completely serious.

Pendulum would be a nice lead in to betterman with that intro. I'm willing to bet hypthothetical vitalogy era pendulum >>> LB Pendulum too.

stip wrote:I think only the original poster said LB was better. But the fact that some songs on L-bolt COULD be better isn't absurd. There are certainly a few songs on L-bolt I prefer more than a few songs on Vitalogy. Even on a record as amazing as vitalogy (which I am prepared to argue is not just the greatest pearl jam album of all time, but the best album of all time period) there are still some songs that are merely very good. And L-bolt has a few songs that are great

Some of the songs on LB could be as good as the songs on Vitalogy with half of Vitalogy's attention to lyrics, band performance and production.

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

Thejambi wrote:Can someone Pm me the version of Pendulum that sounds remotely as phenomenal as Immortality?

Or the coda of "Not For You". Or the intro to "Better Man".

oh come on. Immortality, fine, but I would rather have pendulum on a record than a minute of noodling at the end of NFY or that little linking piece at the start of betterman

The intro to "Better Man" is, to me, the best part of the studio version. It's untouchable. It sets up the song perfectly, and I've always wished they would try it live. The guitar part at the end of "Not For You" is also the best part of the song, and wraps it up in an unexpected way that is perfectly fitting. The easy way out would be to end the song after a guitar solo; instead they ended it after a chiming, haunting reprise of the song's main chords further up the fretboard. Sheer genius.

Also, you're out of your fucking mind if you're prepared to argue that Vitalogy is the greatest album of all time, but I suspect you would be prepared to post 10 pages of arguments to prove your point. I mean, I love it as much as anything, and it's a top 20 album for me but it isn't on the same level as say OK Computer, Revolver or Daydream Nation (or, for that matter Pet Sounds, which has never been a favorite of mine but is frequently cited as one of the greatest albums ever made).

stip wrote:Even on a record as amazing as vitalogy (which I am prepared to argue is not just the greatest pearl jam album of all time, but the best album of all time period)

When do we get to hear this argument? I'll happily read it.

Reading some of these comments, I feel even more sure that the OP is well within his rights to argue his case. That fact that he considers LB better than Vitalogy sounds no more ridiculous to me than the fact that some people actually think the intro of Betterman is the best part of the song, or that the ending of Not For You is the best part of the song, or that there is no song on LB which is better than any song on Vitalogy, or that people actually think Binaural (or Riot Act or No Code) is the best (or even a good) PJ album.

Opinions. They rarely make sense.

matt reeder wrote:

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

Thejambi wrote:Can someone Pm me the version of Pendulum that sounds remotely as phenomenal as Immortality?

Or the coda of "Not For You". Or the intro to "Better Man".

oh come on. Immortality, fine, but I would rather have pendulum on a record than a minute of noodling at the end of NFY or that little linking piece at the start of betterman

The intro to "Better Man" is, to me, the best part of the studio version. It's untouchable. It sets up the song perfectly, and I've always wished they would try it live. The guitar part at the end of "Not For You" is also the best part of the song, and wraps it up in an unexpected way that is perfectly fitting. The easy way out would be to end the song after a guitar solo; instead they ended it after a chiming, haunting reprise of the song's main chords further up the fretboard. Sheer genius.

Also, you're out of your fucking mind if you're prepared to argue that Vitalogy is the greatest album of all time, but I suspect you would be prepared to post 10 pages of arguments to prove your point. I mean, I love it as much as anything, and it's a top 20 album for me but it isn't on the same level as say OK Computer, Revolver or Daydream Nation (or, for that matter Pet Sounds, which has never been a favorite of mine but is frequently cited as one of the greatest albums ever made).

I think Vitalogy is better than those three albums, or I'd listen to those three albums more.

matt reeder wrote:

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

Thejambi wrote:Can someone Pm me the version of Pendulum that sounds remotely as phenomenal as Immortality?

Or the coda of "Not For You". Or the intro to "Better Man".

oh come on. Immortality, fine, but I would rather have pendulum on a record than a minute of noodling at the end of NFY or that little linking piece at the start of betterman

The intro to "Better Man" is, to me, the best part of the studio version. It's untouchable. It sets up the song perfectly, and I've always wished they would try it live. The guitar part at the end of "Not For You" is also the best part of the song, and wraps it up in an unexpected way that is perfectly fitting. The easy way out would be to end the song after a guitar solo; instead they ended it after a chiming, haunting reprise of the song's main chords further up the fretboard. Sheer genius.

Also, you're out of your fucking mind if you're prepared to argue that Vitalogy is the greatest album of all time, but I suspect you would be prepared to post 10 pages of arguments to prove your point. I mean, I love it as much as anything, and it's a top 20 album for me but it isn't on the same level as say OK Computer, Revolver or Daydream Nation (or, for that matter Pet Sounds, which has never been a favorite of mine but is frequently cited as one of the greatest albums ever made).

That is correct. It is a better album than those records, and as such is not on their level.

harmless wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

Thejambi wrote:Can someone Pm me the version of Pendulum that sounds remotely as phenomenal as Immortality?

Or the coda of "Not For You". Or the intro to "Better Man".

oh come on. Immortality, fine, but I would rather have pendulum on a record than a minute of noodling at the end of NFY or that little linking piece at the start of betterman

The intro to "Better Man" is, to me, the best part of the studio version. It's untouchable. It sets up the song perfectly, and I've always wished they would try it live. The guitar part at the end of "Not For You" is also the best part of the song, and wraps it up in an unexpected way that is perfectly fitting. The easy way out would be to end the song after a guitar solo; instead they ended it after a chiming, haunting reprise of the song's main chords further up the fretboard. Sheer genius.

Also, you're out of your fucking mind if you're prepared to argue that Vitalogy is the greatest album of all time, but I suspect you would be prepared to post 10 pages of arguments to prove your point. I mean, I love it as much as anything, and it's a top 20 album for me but it isn't on the same level as say OK Computer, Revolver or Daydream Nation (or, for that matter Pet Sounds, which has never been a favorite of mine but is frequently cited as one of the greatest albums ever made).

I think Vitalogy is better than those three albums, or I'd listen to those three albums more.

Vitalogy is a desert island record.

Release_Me wrote:Opinions. They rarely make sense.

I also don't think people are capable of removing emotional impact when they look at favourite/best albums of all time (I see the same thing all the time in sports discussions), if that makes sense.

For example: to me, the two greatest albums every made were released in 1998. I don't think it's a coincidence that I feel that way considering I was 15/16 years old when I first heard them.

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

Thejambi wrote:Can someone Pm me the version of Pendulum that sounds remotely as phenomenal as Immortality?

Or the coda of "Not For You". Or the intro to "Better Man".

oh come on. Immortality, fine, but I would rather have pendulum on a record than a minute of noodling at the end of NFY or that little linking piece at the start of betterman

The intro to "Better Man" is, to me, the best part of the studio version. It's untouchable. It sets up the song perfectly, and I've always wished they would try it live. The guitar part at the end of "Not For You" is also the best part of the song, and wraps it up in an unexpected way that is perfectly fitting. The easy way out would be to end the song after a guitar solo; instead they ended it after a chiming, haunting reprise of the song's main chords further up the fretboard. Sheer genius.

Also, you're out of your fucking mind if you're prepared to argue that Vitalogy is the greatest album of all time, but I suspect you would be prepared to post 10 pages of arguments to prove your point. I mean, I love it as much as anything, and it's a top 20 album for me but it isn't on the same level as say OK Computer, Revolver or Daydream Nation (or, for that matter Pet Sounds, which has never been a favorite of mine but is frequently cited as one of the greatest albums ever made).

That is correct. It is a better album than those records, and as such is not on their level.

Opinions are like assholes, stip. Here are 12 more albums I think are as good or better than Vitalogy:

Sleater-Kinney - The Woods
Built to Spill - Perfect From Now On
Radiohead - Kid A
Paul Simon - Graceland
Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV
The Clash - London Calling
R.E.M. - Murmur
Pavement - Wowee Zowee
The Beatles - Abbey Road
Wilco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
My Bloody Valentine - Loveless
The Minutemen - Double Nickles on the Dime

In the end, it's just an opinion. You are entitled to yours but you should expect a lot of people to disagree with you strongly. One of my best friends will tell you that he thinks Uncle Tupelo's March 16-20, 1992 is the greatest album of all time. He could spend hours talking about it and used it as the inspiration for his graduate thesis. Does that make him right? Yes and no. Does it really matter? My favorite album of all time is Siamese Dream. I could spend hours telling you why I think it's one of the greatest albums of all time but that doesn't mean I expect other people to agree with me. That's what makes it my favorite album, but not the best album.

The four albums I cited in the previous post are often listed as 4 of the greatest albums ever recorded. Good luck trying to convince a large group of music lovers that Vitalogy is a better album than any of those, regardless of what you think of it.

this thread makes me wan

philpritchard wrote:

Release_Me wrote:Opinions. They rarely make sense.

I also don't think people are capable of removing emotional impact when they look at favourite/best albums of all time (I see the same thing all the time in sports discussions), if that makes sense.

For example: to me, the two greatest albums every made were released in 1998. I don't think it's a coincidence that I feel that way considering I was 15/16 years old when I first heard them.

BINGO. Ask anybody who grew up in the 60s how they feel about their favorite Beatles, Stones, Pink Floyd or Motown album. Ask anybody who grew up on punk how they felt about whatever strain of punk was out when they were young. We're sitting here arguing about Vitalogy because most of us grew up on it, and that makes it sacred on a level that modern PJ cannot match. Part of it is quality, but part of it is also the nostalgia attached to the stuff we liked when we were younger. I remember riding on the bus with a tape copy of Vitalogy all the time in like 1995 - it was the album that got me into PJ. I have a very strong nostalgic attachment to it. It clouds my judgment.

What's the other album that came out in 1998 (assuming Yield is one of them). The first things that come to mind are Hello Nasty, A Thousand Leaves, Mutations, In the Aeroplane Over the Sea and Adore.

matt reeder wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

Release_Me wrote:Opinions. They rarely make sense.

I also don't think people are capable of removing emotional impact when they look at favourite/best albums of all time (I see the same thing all the time in sports discussions), if that makes sense.

For example: to me, the two greatest albums every made were released in 1998. I don't think it's a coincidence that I feel that way considering I was 15/16 years old when I first heard them.

BINGO. Ask anybody who grew up in the 60s how they feel about their favorite Beatles, Stones, Pink Floyd or Motown album. Ask anybody who grew up on punk how they felt about whatever strain of punk was out when they were young. We're sitting here arguing about Vitalogy because most of us grew up on it, and that makes it sacred on a level that modern PJ cannot match. Part of it is quality, but part of it is also the nostalgia attached to the stuff we liked when we were younger. I remember riding on the bus with a tape copy of Vitalogy all the time in like 1995 - it was the album that got me into PJ. I have a very strong nostalgic attachment to it. It clouds my judgment.

What's the other album that came out in 1998 (assuming Yield is one of them). The first things that come to mind are Hello Nasty, A Thousand Leaves, Mutations, In the Aeroplane Over the Sea and Adore.

Phantom Power by The Tragically Hip.

I think I could make a reasonable argument as to why Vitalogy really is one of the greats. One major theme is that it addresses fame and the struggle to retain purity in modern culture. It's the very first of it's kind. Pre-OKC and Pre-Kid A, Pre-Marshall Mathers LP (or for that matter, pre-Lady Gaga and Kanye West who also try to take on the contradiction of art and fame to varying levels of quality), it addresses that topic first. At the time, it was completely absurd to "complain" about fame. Nowadays, the whole conundrum of maintaining purity and a human element amongst all of the craziness and bullshit of our culture is a major cultural topic that everyone is struggling to make sense out of. Vitalogy details that reality in a very effective and brutal way and has some of the answers (which are bleak) that people should look at to understand where we are today. This came at a time that Eddie was at some sort of Michael Jackson level of fame and he was handling it in a very different and unprecedented way and Vitalogy captures it in all of it's glory. Amazing. (Btw, the above is not my 'reasonable argument' - that would take pages and pages for me to do).

But back to the topic, sure, there might be songs on LB that could compete and hang (probably, okay definitely, not as a whole album) as a single song or atleast claim to sort of be 'siblings' to those songs. I'd have to think long and hard on that and I'm not even anywhere close to being at that point w/ LB. But, my own statement above sort of 'mystifies' Vitalogy (appropriately I believe), but song for song, I'm totally cool trying to compare. But that'd take me years personally.

If I weren't so lazy, I'd go back and see if any of the same posters who blasted stip for saying Pearl Jam was better than Led Zeppelin (or that he didn't like the Beatles) are here defending flannelking's right to think Lightning Bolt is better than Vitalogy (who also came to the scientific conclusion that Pearl Jam was better than Led Zeppelin).

flannelking, don't worry, you're still one of my favorites. I look forward to more research, formulas, and stories about "Jam Pearl."

Pearl Jam is my favorite band of all time.
Vitalogy is my favorite Pearl Jam album.
Vitalogy > All other albums.

Tuolumne wrote:I think I could make a reasonable argument as to why Vitalogy really is one of the greats. One major theme is that it addresses fame and the struggle to retain purity in modern culture. It's the very first of it's kind.

I agree with you that it's one of the greats but, wow, it isn't the first album ever to do or be this.

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:I think I could make a reasonable argument as to why Vitalogy really is one of the greats. One major theme is that it addresses fame and the struggle to retain purity in modern culture. It's the very first of it's kind.

I agree with you that it's one of the greats but, wow, it isn't the first album ever to do or be this.

Spitballing here but couldn't that theme even be applied to Vs.?

Thejambi wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:I think I could make a reasonable argument as to why Vitalogy really is one of the greats. One major theme is that it addresses fame and the struggle to retain purity in modern culture. It's the very first of it's kind.

I agree with you that it's one of the greats but, wow, it isn't the first album ever to do or be this.

Spitballing here but couldn't that theme even be applied to Vs.?

Isn't that what The White Album is about?

so who here doesn't really like The Beatles?