Red Mosquito

harmless wrote:And yeah, everyone's Best Of list is subjective stip.

also, I know this is obviously subjective. But at least I draw a distinction between a song that strikes a chord with me personally that I might really like a lot and something else I'd be eager to show to someone else because I think it can stand up to broader scrutiny and appeal.

Am I the only one?

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:And yeah, everyone's Best Of list is subjective stip.

not badmusic's

Huh? It's pretty well documented accross the various instances of this board that I don't believe in any objectivity when it comes to these things.

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:And yeah, everyone's Best Of list is subjective stip.

also, I know this is obviously subjective. But at least I draw a distinction between a song that strikes a chord with me personally that I might really like a lot and something else I'd be eager to show to someone else because I think it can stand up to broader scrutiny and appeal.

Am I the only one?

Also pretty well documented: I don't care about other people.

Blue Mosquito wrote:

the singer reminded me of billy corgan a bit. I liked this one

Blue Mosquito wrote:

this was good, especially the outro

Blue Mosquito wrote:

I liked this one too.

Heathen wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:And yeah, everyone's Best Of list is subjective stip.

not badmusic's

Huh? It's pretty well documented accross the various instances of this board that I don't believe in any objectivity when it comes to these things.

It is, but there is an objective quality to your subjectivity, curiously enough, because of that

stip wrote:

Heathen wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:And yeah, everyone's Best Of list is subjective stip.

not badmusic's

Huh? It's pretty well documented accross the various instances of this board that I don't believe in any objectivity when it comes to these things.

It is, but there is an objective quality to your subjectivity, curiously enough, because of that

I don't understand

by reducing all questions of quality to your personal preference you establish one standard, as opposed to say, me, who attempts to draw a distinction between songs I like for idiosyncratic reasons and songs I think go beyond my personal preference.

this is almost certainly not a conversation that will interest anyone, including you and me

Yeah I'm objectively not interested.

So back to songs... what's a good song? A song with a large (if not universal) appeal? If so just go to the best-selling singles / most viewed on youtube etc. If it's not that, what is it? You seem to be implying that the songs posted here don't have what it takes to be considered the best of 2013, that regardless of your own taste they simply don't qualify, they're unremarkable etc. So what would it take? What is it that makes a song worthy of being one of the best? Is Mescalito such a song and why? If you think you can go beyond your own preference and state the good and the bad in a more neutral way surely you can be more precise than just saying you find them unremarkable.

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:And yeah, everyone's Best Of list is subjective stip.

also, I know this is obviously subjective. But at least I draw a distinction between a song that strikes a chord with me personally that I might really like a lot and something else I'd be eager to show to someone else because I think it can stand up to broader scrutiny and appeal.

Am I the only one?

When it comes to music I have very little interest in what anyone else would particularly like, for me it's all about my own personal tastes.

Having said that I guess I do have to admit that I'm not being 100% truthful there, because I do sometimes try to introduce other people to the things I like and am almost constantly dissappointed at their indifference. I too know many people as per KD's post above. People who are interested in music generally that I'd assume would at least listen to some new stuff with "open ears" and take at least something from it, but who mostly in the end just aren't interested. It actually kinda really pisses me off.

As far as the stuff that I like this year I like because I like it. Yep, it's that complex. I can't distinguish between what I like personally and something that "I think...can stand up to broader scrutiny and appeal". I like it, shouldn't everyone with reasonable taste? Surely!

Lament wrote: 8. Black Skinhead - Kanye West

Heathen wrote:Yeah I'm objectively not interested.

So back to songs... what's a good song? A song with a large (if not universal) appeal? If so just go to the best-selling singles / most viewed on youtube etc. If it's not that, what is it? You seem to be implying that the songs posted here don't have what it takes to be considered the best of 2013, that regardless of your own taste they simply don't qualify, they're unremarkable etc. So what would it take? What is it that makes a song worthy of being one of the best? Is Mescalito such a song and why? If you think you can go beyond your own preference and state the good and the bad in a more neutral way surely you can be more precise than just saying you find them unremarkable.

No, it isn't necessarily a large or universal appeal. I find most of the songs that have been linked pretty unremarkable and so I was wondering if people thought these were personal favorites or stuff that they thought was the best. Again to keep coming back to future days, it's a song I currently am enjoying the shit out of. But I would not nominate it for a list like this. Mescalito is also a song I enjoy the shit out of as well, but I also think in terms of craft, performance, writing, execution--all the details that go into the final product, I would expect to be able to play Mescalito to anyone into that kind of music and be confident that they would really love that song. It embodies the strengths of that kind of song. i would not say that about every song I personally love.

And yes, I could be more precise about why I find them unremarkable. But for long lists of random songs like this I usually don't necessarily have the inclination, and right now I almost certainly don't have the time, especially because my opinion was not being explicitly solicited. If it was I'd invest more time into it.

I liked several of Blue Mosquito's picks!

stip wrote:Mescalito is also a song I enjoy the shit out of as well, but I also think in terms of craft, performance, writing, execution--all the details that go into the final product, I would expect to be able to play Mescalito to anyone into that kind of music and be confident that they would really love that song. It embodies the strengths of that kind of song. i would not say that about every song I personally love.

Isn't the bolded part something essential here though? I would expect a majority of people who are into music in the vein of that Sigur Ros track to like it, or even love it, or at least to think there's some value to the final product, as you say it. Replace Sigur Ros by any other band posted here. People who like music like Future Days might think it's a remarkable song, I mean why the hell not? The fact that these people should be shot is another story. I don't expect most people here to care about that song I posted but I would expect at least people who are into this particular subgenre of what is already a subgenre of metal to find some qualities to it, etc. The thing is "that kind of music" can mean a million of things now.

Heathen wrote:

stip wrote:Mescalito is also a song I enjoy the shit out of as well, but I also think in terms of craft, performance, writing, execution--all the details that go into the final product, I would expect to be able to play Mescalito to anyone into that kind of music and be confident that they would really love that song. It embodies the strengths of that kind of song. i would not say that about every song I personally love.

Isn't the bolded part something essential here though? I would expect a majority of people who are into music in the vein of that Sigur Ros track to like it, or even love it, or at least to think there's some value to the final product, as you say it. Replace Sigur Ros by any other band posted here. People who like music like Future Days might think it's a remarkable song, I mean why the hell not? The fact that these people should be shot is another story. I don't expect most people here to care about that song I posted but I would expect at least people who are into this particular subgenre of what is already a subgenre of metal to find some qualities to it, etc. The thing is "that kind of music" can mean a million of things now.

that's true.

I expect anyone who's into the 'woman with a very sweet voice singing breakup songs over fingerpicking' kind of music to like this:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:And yeah, everyone's Best Of list is subjective stip.

also, I know this is obviously subjective. But at least I draw a distinction between a song that strikes a chord with me personally that I might really like a lot and something else I'd be eager to show to someone else because I think it can stand up to broader scrutiny and appeal.

Am I the only one?

I don't really care about broader scrutiny and appeal. All I care about is whether I judge a song to be awesome, because I have a trustworthy criteria and a good enough pair of ears to hear quality. Basically, I don't enjoy something if I think it's not very good, and if I do think something's not very good by a band or artist I like, I'll choose a better song.

Kaius wrote:

Lament wrote: 8. Black Skinhead - Kanye West

Weren't you the guy who suggested listening to Pearl Jam and 'cheering the fuck up' as the catch-all cure for sadness?

stip wrote:by reducing all questions of quality to your personal preference you establish one standard, as opposed to say, me, who attempts to draw a distinction between songs I like for idiosyncratic reasons and songs I think go beyond my personal preference.

There are songs I am sentimentally attached to that I don't think are technically very good, but they haven't made it onto my list. Having said that, my 'very good' will depend on the artist and genre I'm listening to, because the criteria changes. If you're listening to electro-pop, your criteria isn't going to be the same as if you're listening to hard rock; if I'm listening to shiny club music designed to do nothing but be uplifting, a song might well make it onto my Best Of list, but not for the same reason I've included Sepultura.

stip wrote:but I also think in terms of craft, performance, writing, execution--all the details that go into the final product

To be honest, if you're looking at the minutiae of every song you want to put in one of these lists, your list is likely to be very narrow in terms of genre, because every genre has its own expectations to meet, which often don't cross over into other genres. I know I'm repeating myself, but if you're (for example) excluding club music just because it has no lyrics (or simplistic lyrics), and just because it has a recognisable formula, that's fair enough, but what else are you excluding? Anything that isn't played by white guys with guitars?

stip wrote:But at least I draw a distinction between a song that strikes a chord with me personally that I might really like a lot and something else I'd be eager to show to someone else because I think it can stand up to broader scrutiny and appeal.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. What would be an example of a song that you like personally that you don't think would stand up to broader scrutiny and appeal? Almost surely anything you might list is going to appeal to an audience that extends beyond strictly yourself, so why would you refrain from sharing something that has struck a chord with you personally because you have already made the decision for others that they aren't going to like it?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I picked that Kurt Vile track because (a) I think it is a beautiful, hypnotic song with honest, unpretentious lyrics, and (b) it is something I have found myself returning to atypically often this year because it has found personal resonance with me. Do I genuinely think it is the single best song of 2013? I couldn't say--I've heard maybe 20 albums with 2013 release dates, which accounts for maybe .000001% of the music released this year. Maybe. I think even people who speak confidently or even arrogantly in their opinions understand that they are operating within their own extremely limited scope of perception, and that trying to discern something like the single best song released worldwide in a 365-day time period is as futile as trying to discern who wrote the best sentence this year, or who cooked the best hamburger. Furthermore, Kurt Vile is an established artist who has received a great deal of positive press in the last few years--it has already been determined that his music can withstand what you call "a broader scrutiny." I am, in fact, a reflection of that broader scrutiny, not someone championing the cause in hopes that it might exist somewhere down the road.

That said, if what you're essentially asking us is if we all picked what we believe to be our respective artist's catalog equivalent to "Future Days," I would surmise that the answer to that is no.