Red Mosquito

Birds in Hell wrote:re: Crown of Thorns

digster wrote:That's why (and this isn't really a fair critique to make), the fact that it gets played relatively often lately is a bit of a drag. It seems too special, in a way.

I think it's an entirely fair critique.

I do miss the days when it seemed as though the band treated themselves and their work with a kind of reverence. Part of that was the playing of a song like Crown of Thorns was in itself a special event reserved for nights when the band really felt it was justified. It's disappointing in some respects to see how frequently it appears these days, particularly since they added the Chloe Dancer intro (which Ed really struggles with).

stip wrote:Which, of course, is a view shared by everyone in the audience. I know my reaction the few times I've heard it was 'man, I wish they would have saved this song for some other show with other people because playing it for me here, now, really cheapens it.'

stip wrote:It looks like they played this about once every 5 shows this last tour, so it's not like this became alive, either.

Birds in Hell wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:re: Crown of Thorns

digster wrote:That's why (and this isn't really a fair critique to make), the fact that it gets played relatively often lately is a bit of a drag. It seems too special, in a way.

I think it's an entirely fair critique.

I do miss the days when it seemed as though the band treated themselves and their work with a kind of reverence. Part of that was the playing of a song like Crown of Thorns was in itself a special event reserved for nights when the band really felt it was justified. It's disappointing in some respects to see how frequently it appears these days, particularly since they added the Chloe Dancer intro (which Ed really struggles with).

stip wrote:Which, of course, is a view shared by everyone in the audience. I know my reaction the few times I've heard it was 'man, I wish they would have saved this song for some other show with other people because playing it for me here, now, really cheapens it.'

I think tailoring of their shows to what they imagine the audience wants to hear (admittedly successfully, I'd imagine, in many cases) is certainly one of the issues at the heart of the band's current live performance woes.

It's like that scene in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, you know? "You can't respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work."

stip wrote:Yeah, that's pretty much exactly the same thing.

PryTo wrote:I imagine this info is out there somewhere, but I'm equally certain some of you good folks will know this. Has PJ covered any MLB songs besides Chloe/Crown? Post 'em if you got 'em.

(I'm in the please-stop-ruining-those-songs category with Chloe/Crown. I'm also in the less Chloe/Crown is more camp. Just. Stop. They should have done it the one time at the ten-year show and left it at that.)

Birds in Hell wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:re: Crown of Thorns

digster wrote:That's why (and this isn't really a fair critique to make), the fact that it gets played relatively often lately is a bit of a drag. It seems too special, in a way.

I think it's an entirely fair critique.

I do miss the days when it seemed as though the band treated themselves and their work with a kind of reverence. Part of that was the playing of a song like Crown of Thorns was in itself a special event reserved for nights when the band really felt it was justified. It's disappointing in some respects to see how frequently it appears these days, particularly since they added the Chloe Dancer intro (which Ed really struggles with).

stip wrote:Which, of course, is a view shared by everyone in the audience. I know my reaction the few times I've heard it was 'man, I wish they would have saved this song for some other show with other people because playing it for me here, now, really cheapens it.'

I think tailoring of their shows to what they imagine the audience wants to hear (admittedly successfully, I'd imagine, in many cases) is certainly one of the issues at the heart of the band's current live performance woes.

It's like that scene in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, you know? "You can't respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work."

Strat wrote:They did stardog champion at pj20 alpine show with Cornell.

Birds in Hell wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:re: Crown of Thorns

digster wrote:That's why (and this isn't really a fair critique to make), the fact that it gets played relatively often lately is a bit of a drag. It seems too special, in a way.

I think it's an entirely fair critique.

I do miss the days when it seemed as though the band treated themselves and their work with a kind of reverence. Part of that was the playing of a song like Crown of Thorns was in itself a special event reserved for nights when the band really felt it was justified. It's disappointing in some respects to see how frequently it appears these days, particularly since they added the Chloe Dancer intro (which Ed really struggles with).

stip wrote:Which, of course, is a view shared by everyone in the audience. I know my reaction the few times I've heard it was 'man, I wish they would have saved this song for some other show with other people because playing it for me here, now, really cheapens it.'

I think tailoring of their shows to what they imagine the audience wants to hear (admittedly successfully, I'd imagine, in many cases) is certainly one of the issues at the heart of the band's current live performance woes.

It's like that scene in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, you know? "You can't respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work."

Seriously, tho.

As a large commercial rock band, there's inevitably going to be some straddling of the somewhat-blurred line between being primarily focused on music to its own end and considering what the audience expects (a crass music/entertainment distinction, if you will).

On recent tours, it feels as though the band's pendulum (ho!) has swung more towards the latter than before to the detriment of their musical development (both in terms of their live performances and their songwriting efforts).

PryTo wrote:

Strat wrote:They did stardog champion at pj20 alpine show with Cornell.

Thanks, forgot about that. Doesn't count for me, since it's Ed-less. Would love to hear Ed sing this. 15 years ago.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

PryTo wrote:

Strat wrote:They did stardog champion at pj20 alpine show with Cornell.

Thanks, forgot about that. Doesn't count for me, since it's Ed-less. Would love to hear Ed sing this. 15 years ago.

So Mankind and Don't Gimme No Lip aren't Pearl Jam songs now?

stip wrote:...they are more bandleaders than a band, if that makes sense. They are focused less on the music and more on the reaction the music is going to elicit. Maybe that's what you meant. It's just a different approach.

stip wrote:...pearl jam's show are intensely interactive in that regard. It's what makes them so great. You get to go to a huge show with your favorite band and you are a part of the event, rather than a witness to it.

stip wrote:You can listen to music at home.

Birds in Hell wrote:I don't even know where to go with this.

stip wrote:They are focused less on the music and more on the reaction the music is going to elicit.

stip wrote:You get to go to a huge show with your favorite band and you are a part of the event, rather than a witness to it.

It probably takes an incredible amount of booze to soften the gut-piercing stab that comes with looking out at an audience so awash in low expectation and easy forgiveness that any attempt to reach beyond adequate is lost on them.

Kevin Davis wrote:

stip wrote:They are focused less on the music and more on the reaction the music is going to elicit.

That's a nice way of putting it. But basically what you're saying is that they've reprised their role in culture from musicians to dancing bears pandering to a room full of people for cheap, momentary applause--and for whatever reason, you've assumed the fallacy, whether you meant to or not, that this end is somehow necessarily separate from technically competent musicianship. If getting a crowd full of drunken buffoons to participate in a few "hey-oh"s and then subsequently enthralling said drunken buffoons by hoisting your bottle of booze into the air to indicate that you too are so cool that you would dare take on the audacious and highly unprecedented task of consuming alcohol at a rock concert is, to you, a talent on par with the level of musicianship we know this band is capable of attaining, then I envy the ease with which you are entertained. I personally think that a group of musicians that comes out onstage unprepared to perform their music--and what's worse, when those musicians have in the past been arrogant enough to remark that they don't feel they need to really rehearse anymore, despite the fact that the recorded evidence clearly reveals otherwise--is both insulting to their audience and just flat out lazy. The argument that that laziness is irrelevant simply because they throw a bitchin' party is a big fucking excuse, and not something I relate to on even the most microscopic level.

stip wrote:You get to go to a huge show with your favorite band and you are a part of the event, rather than a witness to it.

There was an episode of "Married...With Children" once where Kelly Bundy was explaining to Bud that she had a beauty salon appointment where--for only $500--she was going to be getting a treatment that made it appear as though she hadn't had any work done to her at all. This kind of reminds me of that. You've essentially convinced yourself that you're getting a good deal by paying $80 per ticket to hear yourself sing the first verse of "Better Man." You can have your magic moment, I guess; I still go to a show hoping that the band will do most if not all of the work.