Red Mosquito

digster wrote:I'd also say that Whipping isn't nearly as overt as something like Grievance or Evacuation, but I get the point

Really? That's interesting. To me Whipping is one of their most overtly political songs. Certainly moreso than Evacuation.

Ten seems to address some political (or socio-political) themes through character studies and stories. Vs is where they start getting explicit. I see your point about WMA, but I'd put that one squarely in the overt catagory. Rats or Leash or Dissident are more in line with what I think you're talking about.

And No Code probably has the least amount of political implication. I would say Binaural is about on par with Vs. Riot Act was born out of certain feelings/ideas; a specific cultural frame of mind. I think people hear it as a more political album because of the time, and beause of S/T.

For me the main difference are the themes of those records; while Vs comments are more socio-political like, let say, Rats or WMA, Riot Act and Binaural, for example, are talking about whats happening in the united states at that particular time ( Grievance, Bushleaguer, Green Disease, All or none).
All of their records are political, but those 3 had enough direct songs about a particular subject in their country...that why Backspacer felt lyrically fresh at the time.

durdencommatyler wrote: Really? That's interesting. To me Whipping is one of their most overtly political songs. Certainly moreso than Evacuation.

Ten seems to address some political (or socio-political) themes through character studies and stories. Vs is where they start getting explicit. I see your point about WMA, but I'd put that one squarely in the overt catagory. Rats or Leash or Dissident are more in line with what I think you're talking about.

And No Code probably has the least amount of political implication. I would say Binaural is about on par with Vs. Riot Act was born out of certain feelings/ideas; a specific cultural frame of mind. I think people hear it as a more political album because of the time, and beause of S/T.

To be honest, I think Whipping is broad enough that it might not even be viewed with any political lens were it not for the liner notes that accompany it. There's nothing that really makes it seem political, and there's not much context in terms of the songs around it that could make it viewed in that fashion.

I also think others may define a 'political' record more specifically than I choose to. Just because I think it's a political record to a degree doesn't mean I think it's subject matter is confined to, or even about partisan politics. I think most of the stuff on that record, and on Binaural, will be as applicable 50 years from now as it is today. To me, it just means that it deals with things like war, corruption, governmental incompetence, etc, in a way their other records don't. There probably is a better term than 'political' record, because although they're concerned with politics it doesn't mean the songs are calls-to-arms or overt diatribes, but I can't think of one. I just think overall those songs and albums interact with the issues in a different way than stuff like the songs on Ten or Vs.

digster wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote: Really? That's interesting. To me Whipping is one of their most overtly political songs. Certainly moreso than Evacuation.

Ten seems to address some political (or socio-political) themes through character studies and stories. Vs is where they start getting explicit. I see your point about WMA, but I'd put that one squarely in the overt catagory. Rats or Leash or Dissident are more in line with what I think you're talking about.

And No Code probably has the least amount of political implication. I would say Binaural is about on par with Vs. Riot Act was born out of certain feelings/ideas; a specific cultural frame of mind. I think people hear it as a more political album because of the time, and beause of S/T.

To be honest, I think Whipping is broad enough that it might not even be viewed with any political lens were it not for the liner notes that accompany it. There's nothing that really makes it seem political, and there's not much context in terms of the songs around it that could make it viewed in that fashion.

I also think others may define a 'political' record more specifically than I choose to. Just because I think it's a political record to a degree doesn't mean I think it's subject matter is confined to, or even about partisan politics. I think most of the stuff on that record, and on Binaural, will be as applicable 50 years from now as it is today. To me, it just means that it deals with things like war, corruption, governmental incompetence, etc, in a way their other records don't. There probably is a better term than 'political' record, because although they're concerned with politics it doesn't mean the songs are calls-to-arms or overt diatribes, but I can't think of one. I just think overall those songs and albums interact with the issues in a different way than stuff like the songs on Ten or Vs.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on your first point about Whipping (I don't even remember the liner notes).

But I absolutely agree with your second point.

VinylGuy wrote:For me the main difference are the themes of those records; while Vs comments are more socio-political like, let say, Rats or WMA, Riot Act and Binaural, for example, are talking about whats happening in the united states at that particular time ( Grievance, Bushleaguer, Green Disease, All or none).
All of their records are political, but those 3 had enough direct songs about a particular subject in their country...that why Backspacer felt lyrically fresh at the time.

See what I did there?

VinylGuy wrote:For me the main difference are the themes of those records; while Vs comments are more socio-political like, let say, Rats or WMA, Riot Act and Binaural, for example, are talking about whats happening in the united states at that particular time ( Grievance, Bushleaguer, Green Disease, All or none).

Well said.

Though, All or None isn't that specific to me. I wouldn't lump that one with the others. But, yes, I agree with and like what you're saying here.

durdencommatyler wrote: We'll just have to agree to disagree on your first point about Whipping (I don't even remember the liner notes).

But I absolutely agree with your second point.

If I remember right, the liner notes reference the abortion debate. That's how I see it, too, but I think if I personally look at the actual lyrics to the song, there's nothing that necessarily makes it a pro-choice song, or even a political song at all. That being said, I think it does work in that light, and very well.

digster wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote: We'll just have to agree to disagree on your first point about Whipping (I don't even remember the liner notes).

But I absolutely agree with your second point.

If I remember right, the liner notes reference the abortion debate. That's how I see it, too, but I think if I personally look at the actual lyrics to the song, there's nothing that necessarily makes it a pro-choice song, or even a political song at all. That being said, I think it does work in that light, and very well.

That's probably fair. I certainly never heard it as a pro-choice song as much as an anti-authority/government/oppression song.

i just wish we could all agree that when we heard 'you are' for the first time, we got scared. very scared. for me it was when the band went to krock and that was the first cut they played from the album. made me real nervous.

nah wrote:i just wish we could all agree that when we heard 'you are' for the first time, we got scared. very scared. for me it was when the band went to krock and that was the first cut they played from the album. made me real nervous.

i was really happy when i heard they were making a truly experiment like that. And right now, You are feels like one of their bests songs, specially live, they learnt how to make it sound more and more like a jam specially at the end...Green Disease has improved a lot too.
They need to do that with Ghost, they still dont know how to play that one.

I admit I was a little turned off by the line "love is a tower and you're the key." But I thought the song was badass.

they should just forget they wrote ghost

warehouse wrote:they should just forget they wrote ghost

its one of those songs in RA were it was supposed to be better than the final product...they should forget about the studio version and improve it live.

durdencommatyler wrote:I admit I was a little turned off by the line "love is a tower and you're the key." But I thought the song was badass.

and how he sung that line froze me in disgust.

I was so hopeful for Pearl Jam when I first heard You Are.

cutuphalfdead wrote:I was so hopeful for Pearl Jam when I first heard You Are.

guy, they ain't morrisey

nah wrote:i just wish we could all agree that when we heard 'you are' for the first time, we got scared. very scared. for me it was when the band went to krock and that was the first cut they played from the album. made me real nervous.

Funny, I had the exact same feeling then.

I really loved You Are when it first came out. It's probably the song I watched most on the Garden DVD. It faded a little afterwards, but it's still a great song for me.

Angus wrote:I really loved You Are when it first came out. It's probably the song I watched most on the Garden DVD. It faded a little afterwards, but it's still a great song for me.

do you play the guitar......?

I have thus far never tried to play You Are. I don't know where that puts me.