Alex Jones, Food Babe, AntiVax and other such Woo

[simple schoolboy]

I see Chris Christie is getting bashed a lot for this today, but unfortunately I think he's disturbingly closer to the mainstream politicians than we may want to admit. (See Obama and McCain in 2008, for example.) I can't think of many (if any) politicians that have the fortitude to advocate the optimal policy: that there should be no exemptions for vaccines at all.

I'm not sure that no exemption would pass muster on first amendment grounds. Perhaps no exemption for those attending public school (with the hope that those attending private school would follow suit). If Christian Scientists and the Amish and others with deeply held religious beliefs are the only ones that have an excuse to avoid immunization, herd immunity is hardly impacted. If the criteria for immunization abstention is equivalent to conscientious objector status, the burden of proof requirement brings down the number of applicable folks to at most a couple of percent.

[Green Habit]

I see Chris Christie is getting bashed a lot for this today, but unfortunately I think he's disturbingly closer to the mainstream politicians than we may want to admit. (See Obama and McCain in 2008, for example.) I can't think of many (if any) politicians that have the fortitude to advocate the optimal policy: that there should be no exemptions for vaccines at all.

I'm not sure that no exemption would pass muster on first amendment grounds. Perhaps no exemption for those attending public school (with the hope that those attending private school would follow suit). If Christian Scientists and the Amish and others with deeply held religious beliefs are the only ones that have an excuse to avoid immunization, herd immunity is hardly impacted. If the criteria for immunization abstention is equivalent to conscientious objector status, the burden of proof requirement brings down the number of applicable folks to at most a couple of percent.

Employment Division v. Smith would lead me to believe that such a law would be constitutional. And on practical grounds, infectious diseases don't really care what religion you are. If there were enough Christian Scientists and/or Amish such that their percentage was greater than the herd immunity allowance, it would be compromised. We need to reserve that slim allowance for people who have a real, medical issue (such as those with deficient immune systems). That's why it's so critical that everyone participates, regardless of beliefs. And I'll be honest: I find the whole concept of only allowing religious exemptions to otherwise neutral laws to be deeply offensive. Your conscientious objector example would at least avoid that, even though it would also allow more exemptions.

[NaiveAndTrue]

I see Chris Christie is getting bashed a lot for this today, but unfortunately I think he's disturbingly closer to the mainstream politicians than we may want to admit. (See Obama and McCain in 2008, for example.) I can't think of many (if any) politicians that have the fortitude to advocate the optimal policy: that there should be no exemptions for vaccines at all.

I'm not sure that no exemption would pass muster on first amendment grounds. Perhaps no exemption for those attending public school (with the hope that those attending private school would follow suit). If Christian Scientists and the Amish and others with deeply held religious beliefs are the only ones that have an excuse to avoid immunization, herd immunity is hardly impacted. If the criteria for immunization abstention is equivalent to conscientious objector status, the burden of proof requirement brings down the number of applicable folks to at most a couple of percent.

When the Amish had an outbreak a few years ago, they all sucked it up and got their shots right quick. I'm all about playing happy god and shit, but when it becomes a danger to a child's health, it's gone too far.

[Green Habit]

I didn't know who Alex Jones and the Food Babe were when this thread was started. In my daily morning reading, I came across this long profile of the Food Babe...and I felt like I wanted to repeatedly bang my iPad on my head as I read it. Then it got worse when I discovered--surprise, surprise--that she questions the flu shot!

I think I want to remain willfully ignorant of who Alex Jones is, to make sure my head doesn't explode today.

[tommymtcom]

Yeah, don't look up Alex Jones.

[Alex]

i am alex jones

[Strat]

Why is it so crazy to question the flu shot? It works like 20% of the time or something ? and each fl strain is basically different than the last?

[NaiveAndTrue]

Why is it so crazy to question the flu shot? It works like 20% of the time or something ? and each fl strain is basically different than the last?

Because TOXINZZZZZZZ

[Norah]

Why is it so crazy to question the flu shot? It works like 20% of the time or something ? and each fl strain is basically different than the last?

20% reduction of risk, while not anything special when compared to vaccines that wipe out diseases entirely, is still a pretty significant reduction of risk.

[Green Habit]

Why is it so crazy to question the flu shot? It works like 20% of the time or something ? and each fl strain is basically different than the last?

20% reduction of risk, while not anything special when compared to vaccines that wipe out diseases entirely, is still a pretty significant reduction of risk.

Plus, the reduction rises when there's fewer people to infect.

[NaiveAndTrue]

Why is it so crazy to question the flu shot? It works like 20% of the time or something ? and each fl strain is basically different than the last?

20% reduction of risk, while not anything special when compared to vaccines that wipe out diseases entirely, is still a pretty significant reduction of risk.

Plus, the reduction rises when there's fewer people to infect.

And even if you do catch it, it's more likely to be *more mild than if you didn't get the shot.

*edit cuz I'm an idiot.

[Strat]

I haven't had a flu shot in god knows how long. Never caught the flu, never passed it on, and I live with someone with a comprised immune system!

I should head to the casino!

[BurtReynolds]

I got flu once and it was awful. But I never get the shot. I assume I'm invincible.

[NaiveAndTrue]

I haven't had a flu shot in god knows how long. Never caught the flu, never passed it on, and I live with someone with a comprised immune system!

I should head to the casino!

I've never gotten the shot or the flu before this year. Got the shot for Shits and Gigs, and what do you know, it ends up being 20% effective. Sorry Folks.

[Strat]

I haven't had a flu shot in god knows how long. Never caught the flu, never passed it on, and I live with someone with a comprised immune system!

I should head to the casino!

I've never gotten the shot or the flu before this year. Got the shot for Shits and Gigs, and what do you know, it ends up being 20% effective. Sorry Folks.

I love you and your cute little butt

[Alex]

I haven't had a flu shot in god knows how long. Never caught the flu, never passed it on, and I live with someone with a comprised immune system!

I should head to the casino!

I've never gotten the shot or the flu before this year. Got the shot for Shits and Gigs, and what do you know, it ends up being 20% effective. Sorry Folks.

I love you and your cute little butt

flu'd babe

[BurtReynolds]

Why is it so crazy to question the flu shot? It works like 20% of the time or something ? and each fl strain is basically different than the last?

20% reduction of risk, while not anything special when compared to vaccines that wipe out diseases entirely, is still a pretty significant reduction of risk.

Plus, the reduction rises when there's fewer people to infect.

I don't do anything out of a sense of social justice or social welfare.

[Alex]

Why is it so crazy to question the flu shot? It works like 20% of the time or something ? and each fl strain is basically different than the last?

20% reduction of risk, while not anything special when compared to vaccines that wipe out diseases entirely, is still a pretty significant reduction of risk.

Plus, the reduction rises when there's fewer people to infect.

I don't do anything out of a sense of social justice or social welfare.

this is where i'd accuse you of solipsism and soma would tell me i'm using the word correctly. RIP soma.

[Simple Torture]

I get "flu-y" about once a year (I teach college kids, so basically 2-3 times a week I have to encounter a dormitory petri dish), but haven't actually gotten a severe case since I was in high school/junior high. Man alive, my body did some weird things for like a week. Pro tip: certain sorts of cough drops cause diarrhea, which added on top of the flu will make you want to die. Make sure to read warning labels!

[Dscans]

I didn't know who Alex Jones and the Food Babe were when this thread was started. In my daily morning reading, I came across this long profile of the Food Babe...and I felt like I wanted to repeatedly bang my iPad on my head as I read it. Then it got worse when I discovered--surprise, surprise--that she questions the flu shot!

I think I want to remain willfully ignorant of who Alex Jones is, to make sure my head doesn't explode today.

Watch Waking Life at the 30 minute mark to get an idea of who Alex Jones is.