Red Mosquito

I wanted to include 'good,' but...

McParadigm wrote:I'm not sure I know what the impetus is for investing so much analysis in a piece that has none of the following attributes: subtle, interpretable, mysterious, clever, distinct.

Are you like this in real life

It's hard to know, really

McParadigm wrote:I'm not sure I know what the impetus is for investing so much analysis in a piece that has none of the following attributes: subtle, interpretable, mysterious, clever, distinct.

so you could produce that post.

Well, I'm enjoying the writing, Stip. The old "you're putting more thought into this than the artist did" platform doesn't hold much water for me -- that's probably true of every work of art ever produced by a major artist by now.

I'm not pushing the "Ed didnt think this much" line, either. Just, at some point it seems like a song is direct and transparent enough not to need the full dig.

If at one end you have something like Desolation Row, and at the other you have Liar by Rollins Band...one of these could have a book written about it. The other could be adequately summed up in two sentences. And you COULD write a book about both, sure...but one would be mostly repeating to people stuff they already grabbed before the start of chorus one, listen one.

There's not a lot of abstraction, subtle request for reflection, or mysterious pursuit in the last 13 years of this band's work. It may be good sometimes...but it's almost never willing to risk letting you have your own interpretation.

McParadigm wrote:I'm not sure I know what the impetus is for investing so much analysis in a piece that has none of the following attributes: subtle, interpretable, mysterious, clever, distinct.

I'm not sure I know what the impetus was for this post. To passive-agressively tell Stip you think his guided tour of Getaway is stupid?

McParadigm wrote:I'm not pushing the "Ed didnt think this much" line, either. Just, at some point it seems like a song is direct and transparent enough not to need the full dig.

If at one end you have something like Desolation Row, and at the other you have Liar by Rollins Band...one of these could have a book written about it. The other could be adequately summed up in two sentences. And you COULD write a book about both, sure...but one would be mostly repeating to people stuff they already grabbed before the start of chorus one, listen one.

There's not a lot of abstraction, subtle request for reflection, or mysterious pursuit in the last 13 years of this band's work. It may be good sometimes...but it's almost never willing to risk letting you have your own interpretation.

Perhaps it's not as transparent as you think. Or maybe the rest of the world is not gifted with your depth and clarity of vision. It could be that you've just evolved beyond threads like this.

We're one song into this series and Digster and I already have two different reads. So I guess the real purpose of this thread is to settle, definitively, which one of us is a moron

Maybe this needs a poll? Or we could just rank the reasons - the standard form of RM discourse.

Still, I appreciate you taking time off from your busy schedule of telling people how dumb they are for getting excited about Star Wars to come here and share your thoughts.

stip wrote:Still, I appreciate you taking time off from your busy schedule of telling people how dumb they are for getting excited about Star Wars to come here and share your thoughts.

He's nothing if not generous with his time.

stip wrote:We're one song into this series and Digster and I already have two different reads. So I guess the real purpose of this thread is to settle, definitively, which one of us is a moron

Well, that's an easy one.

I think what I was feeling about the record might apply more to Mind Your Manners. I feel like the record runs the gamut between optimistic and pessimistic songs.

Nice write up Stip. Lyric interpretation isn't my bag baby but I appreciate the effort.

McParadigm wrote:There's not a lot of abstraction, subtle request for reflection, or mysterious pursuit in the last 13 years of this band's work. It may be good sometimes...but it's almost never willing to risk letting you have your own interpretation.

Tell that to the five pages of argument about whether or not Lightning Bolt is about a surfboard, bub.

Stip's doing a great job. I wanted to post an in-depth reply but I'm not sure I can formulate my thoughts well enough just yet to express any agreement or disagreement. Also, I'm a little gun shy right now about discussing interpretations. I'll get over that, soon. Finally, I kinda feel a bit like digster and KD in that I don't know that I'm really listened to the song enough to have defined thoughts.

I did listen to it again after reading Stip's post though and I did have some thoughts. I tried to type something out but it was convoluted (surprise, surprise!) and rambling.

durdencommatyler wrote:
I did listen to it again after reading Stip's post though and I did have some thoughts. I tried to type something out but it was convoluted (surprise, surprise!) and rambling.

We can't all be Kevin Davis, joey.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:
I did listen to it again after reading Stip's post though and I did have some thoughts. I tried to type something out but it was convoluted (surprise, surprise!) and rambling.

We can't all be Kevin Davis, joey.

Don't remind me, friend. His fucking internet posting is better than my writing.

durdencommatyler wrote:

bada wrote:I love Stip and appreciate his effort with these but when was the last time Stip had an opinion that surprised anyone? Don't we already know what he is going to say about these songs. The PJ forum is like getting together with your friends and all you talk about is high school. You've heard all these stories a million times.

I have a feeling I know what his opinions about each of these songs are, but that doesn't mean this exercise won't have value. As he's already pointed out, this is much more about looking at the album as a whole and how the songs work together. This is an examination of whether or not the album is telling a story and if so was it told successfully? It isn't (or shouldn't be) about taste as much as perspective. And that's fun, I think.

I'm one of posters, like digster, that doesn't see much of a connection between the songs. I'm not sure LB has a story to tell. To me, it really is more of a collection of songs than something super cohesive. Which isn't an insult by any means. I'm curious to discover how Stip hears the record and read about what connections he hears. Regardless of whether or not we hang the same number of stars on each song, I'm excited for this as a means to better understanding the album and how others hear it.

These are fun when we allow them to go beyond "you suck" "that sucks" "that rules" "fuck Infallible" "go blow a goat" and/or any reference to a receptacle of genitalia.

For me, and I get this impression from a lot of what stip posts as well though I don't want to put words in his mouth, saying that's there's a kind of thematic cohesion to the record doesn't necessarily mean that Ed set out to write something with a particular point of view or that there's an intended message or through line. It's acknowledging that one guy wrote all the lyrics at a specific point in his life and so even a disparate collection of songs still reflect what he was about and dealing with at that time in his life.

That's why I think it's really hard to claim similar thematic cohesion with a lot of the middle period records because plenty of songs at that time had lyrics penned by other members of the group. Trying to shoehorn what Ament was feeling with Pilate and Low Light and what Stone was feeling with No Way and ATY onto where Eddie was coming from with the rest of Yield feels wrong to me, unless someone wants to make a compelling case that those songs made the record because Ed thought they fit his vision lyrically.

But Stip's overall idea about this album reads to me as roughly, "It's about stuff a middle aged dad thinks about" is pretty broad, and pretty hard to argue. Maybe as he goes, he'll draw a stronger through line than that. If so, I'm curious to follow.

I love Getaway. My second favorite tune off the album (Pendulum being No. 1).

I appreciate Stip's write-up and had a follow-up question...I always found it interesting that Vedder wrote this song, but does not play guitar on it....am I crazy to think that Vedder plays guitar on the vast majority of the songs he writes, meaning Getaway is one of a few exceptions?