Red Mosquito

Isn't Rubin a pretty notorious brickwaller?

LoathedVermin72 wrote:Isn't Rubin a pretty notorious brickwaller?

His name is certainly on a lot of records that have been criticized for it, which one would assume to be no coincidence, but how much of it is directly Rubin's fault and how much of it happened in the mastering process I don't feel qualified to say. Though it doesn't seem a stretch to assume that a producer of Rubin's general involvement level would still be calling the shots in the mastering stages even if he wasn't the guy pushing the buttons...

Yeah, my favorite composers actually have chord progressions and key changes... In your example, your yeezus merely repeated a few notes on the piano with a beat. My daughter played better than that after one week of lessons... oh, and there are 1,2,3,4,5...SIX writers credited in that song

Why am I even trying?

For my money, "Power" is the best example of Kanye as an "orchestral producer" -- the way different elements of the sample appear and disappear throughout the track, and interact with each other in different capacities and combinations, culminating in that harmonically stunning coda with those "ah-ah, hey-hey"s looping over the chord changes from earlier in the song. Just wonderful stuff.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:Isn't Rubin a pretty notorious brickwaller?

Brickwalling >>>> Auto-Tune

Kevin Davis wrote:For my money, "Power" is the best example of Kanye as an "orchestral producer" -- the way different elements of the sample appear and disappear throughout the track, and interact with each other in different capacities and combinations, culminating in that harmonically stunning coda with those "ah-ah, hey-hey"s looping over the chord changes from earlier in the song. Just wonderful stuff.

Totally agreed. "Power" is a monster track. Some of his best lyrics, too.

Kevin Davis wrote:For my money, "Power" is the best example of Kanye as an "orchestral producer" -- the way different elements of the sample appear and disappear throughout the track, and interact with each other in different capacities and combinations, culminating in that harmonically stunning coda with those "ah-ah, hey-hey"s looping over the chord changes from earlier in the song. Just wonderful stuff.

17 writers credited (including Robert Fripp - WTF?)...

4 producer credits...

Kanye arguments always seem to follow the same pattern. Yawn.

Iholdthepain wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:For my money, "Power" is the best example of Kanye as an "orchestral producer" -- the way different elements of the sample appear and disappear throughout the track, and interact with each other in different capacities and combinations, culminating in that harmonically stunning coda with those "ah-ah, hey-hey"s looping over the chord changes from earlier in the song. Just wonderful stuff.

17 writers credited (including Robert Fripp - WTF?)...

4 producer credits...

Yes, when a lot of artists are sampled, they all have to be credited as writers, not dissimilar to an author including a bibliography when citing the works of other writers. The fact that there are 17 writers on that track (one of whom was indeed Robert Fripp, whose "21st Century Schizoid Man" is sampled) is an argument for, not against, Kanye's talents as a manipulator of samples -- it feels like you're kind of misunderstanding the fundamental infrastructure of rap music here, and defaulting to the old fallacy that hip-hop artists sample records because they can't compose music on their own. Having 17 composers on that track isn't Kanye needing 17 composers' worth of "help" -- that's just the number of pieces he used for his collage, the number of authors he needed to cite as reference.

I'd also argue that anyone saying that artists need to be humble and that Kanye is a douche because he essentially just has really high self-esteem is displaying an ignorance of what rap music is all about.

I'm listening to Kanye right now.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I'd also argue that anyone saying that artists need to be humble and that Kanye is a douche because he essentially just has really high self-esteem is displaying an ignorance of what rap music is all about.

And perhaps against all odds, he has proven to be the most upstanding Kardashian in-law. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, haterz!

Kaius wrote:I'm listening to Kanye right now.

Me too. I've been listening to 808s all morning. RoboCop may be my favorite song of all time.

Yes. Yesssss. That's right. Give all your love to Kanye.

I really wish he wouldn't have thrown Pinocchio Story on at the end. Going out with Coldest Winter would have been perfect. I know a lot of people don't really count it and just see it as an extra live track, but I really wish it would have just been a B-side or something.

Most of my favorite producers do have a signature sound, and Rick Rubin is not one of my favorites because of his sound. Mean Joe Barressi, Nigel Godrich, Flood, and a local Dallas guy named Salim Nourallah all come to mind... That being said, the true definition of a producer is some one who 'makes it happen' and Rick Rubin has made a LOT of great things happen. It's the engineers/mixers who apply the craft, and largely get no credit whatsoever.

That being said, whenever you have such a log of writers and producers on EVERY hit single, that means one of two things. Either they're having such a difficult time making it happen that they called in additional help, or that the song was contrived in a Hollywood consortium of corporate pop writers... which is what happens all the time with singers such as Beyoncé. They write songs using formulas based on what's already popular with the kids.

One of the two is going on here with this "incredible composer and producer"

Who gives a shit how many people are involved in making a track? Is there anyone else out there operating at Kanye's level when working with producers? Why does it matter when the music is consistently stellar? The common thread between all these tracks using different contributors is Kanye. On top of that, a lot of art is collaborative. Is Welles not a genius because he had Toland as a cinematographer?

Kevin Davis wrote:

Iholdthepain wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:For my money, "Power" is the best example of Kanye as an "orchestral producer" -- the way different elements of the sample appear and disappear throughout the track, and interact with each other in different capacities and combinations, culminating in that harmonically stunning coda with those "ah-ah, hey-hey"s looping over the chord changes from earlier in the song. Just wonderful stuff.

17 writers credited (including Robert Fripp - WTF?)...

4 producer credits...

Yes, when a lot of artists are sampled, they all have to be credited as writers, not dissimilar to an author including a bibliography when citing the works of other writers. The fact that there are 17 writers on that track (one of whom was indeed Robert Fripp, whose "21st Century Schizoid Man" is sampled) is an argument for, not against, Kanye's talents as a manipulator of samples -- it feels like you're kind of misunderstanding the fundamental infrastructure of rap music here, and defaulting to the old fallacy that hip-hop artists sample records because they can't compose music on their own. Having 17 composers on that track isn't Kanye needing 17 composers' worth of "help" -- that's just the number of pieces he used for his collage, the number of authors he needed to cite as reference.

Maybe it is an old, tired argument, but if you're such a great composer you wouldn't need to take so much from other artists, methinks.

and if Runaway is your prime example of how 'incredible' he is as a composer...