Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Its biggest flaw is probably that stupid moss line in "Who You Are".

No, yeah, forget everything I said before. This is right.

I like your underwater description earlier.



And I don't know that I'd go so far as to defend that lyric, but it does send a signal that the song is meant to be playful stab at faux mysticism. Without that line the song invites you to take it more seriously, which plays against its strengths

I think the inclusion of the words "soul" and "moss" do a much better job of cementing the song's playfulness.

McParadigm wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:I like I'm Open.

It's good. Not the best writing, but not the worst, and it's got a magnificent backdrop. It's got maybe just a tiny bit of that quality Tomorrow Never Knows has, where the lyrics are corny but are mostly just there to serve the mood of the song, so who cares.

And if I'm being totally honest, 15 year old dct was bound to those lines about the moon overhead and trading magic for fact. That shit meant everything for a little while.

each morning that i open a thread in the pearl jam forum, i am born anew in stip's awfulness. it's nearly miraculous.

stip wrote:

digster wrote:I never really heard No Code as being a 'wisdom' record, where Ed imparts to the people what he's learned. Even on stuff like Present Tense or I'm Open, I don't think there's any indication that he is confident about his stances. An album being a catalog of truths learned makes more sense with Yield than with No Code. The latter is sputtering all over the place, trying to make sense of the shitstorm that occurred during Vitalogy. It's what makes it such a compelling listen.

I certainly agree there is more of that on yield. But I think it begins with no code. Songs like who you are and especially present tense come to mind

It's there, but I don't know if it's coming from a place of actual knowledge, vs. grasping at the hope of it. Basically, what you've said in the past about Yield (that it's a record with a 'lie' at its center), actually pertains much better to No Code, imo.

stip wrote: And I've always thought that the 'there's No Code!' excuse for the disorganization of the record is a dodge, especially because, ultimately, No Code is meant to be useful to the listener--let me map my journey so you can more easily undertake yours. It is not a self contained snap shot of a particularly messy moment in time that exists only to document that moment.

I'm not sure there's a PJ album that does this more than No Code, at least to my ears.

digster wrote:

stip wrote:

digster wrote:I never really heard No Code as being a 'wisdom' record, where Ed imparts to the people what he's learned. Even on stuff like Present Tense or I'm Open, I don't think there's any indication that he is confident about his stances. An album being a catalog of truths learned makes more sense with Yield than with No Code. The latter is sputtering all over the place, trying to make sense of the shitstorm that occurred during Vitalogy. It's what makes it such a compelling listen.

I certainly agree there is more of that on yield. But I think it begins with no code. Songs like who you are and especially present tense come to mind

It's there, but I don't know if it's coming from a place of actual knowledge, vs. grasping at the hope of it. Basically, what you've said in the past about Yield (that it's a record with a 'lie' at its center), actually pertains much better to No Code, imo.

These are records meant to capture a journey. It makes sense for them to have a lot of focusing points, questions, and conclusions.

Frankly, I'm not sure there are many people who CAN capture the last aspect well....Neil Young is generally terrible at it, Tom Waits usually has to bury it inside a character, narrative, or faux-spiritual gospelization, John Lennon never managed not to sound like a dickhole when trying it, and the more it has engulfed Springsteen's writing the more it has turned his humanist and empathic stories into a series of bad caricatures.

The other side to that is, if you write to capture the journey but never try to draw any consequential conclusions, then the journey has no sense of having mattered and ultimately seems to have been a fruitless endeavor. As odd as Cat Stevens' story is, if he'd made those first five or six records and then (shrug) just kept on making music and being a star for another 40 years without a backwards glance, it would have affected the authenticity of the search those recordings were documenting.

McParadigm wrote:

digster wrote:

stip wrote:

digster wrote:I never really heard No Code as being a 'wisdom' record, where Ed imparts to the people what he's learned. Even on stuff like Present Tense or I'm Open, I don't think there's any indication that he is confident about his stances. An album being a catalog of truths learned makes more sense with Yield than with No Code. The latter is sputtering all over the place, trying to make sense of the shitstorm that occurred during Vitalogy. It's what makes it such a compelling listen.

I certainly agree there is more of that on yield. But I think it begins with no code. Songs like who you are and especially present tense come to mind

It's there, but I don't know if it's coming from a place of actual knowledge, vs. grasping at the hope of it. Basically, what you've said in the past about Yield (that it's a record with a 'lie' at its center), actually pertains much better to No Code, imo.

These are records meant to capture a journey. It makes sense for them to have a lot of focusing points, questions, and conclusions.

Frankly, I'm not sure there are many people who CAN capture the last aspect well....Neil Young is generally terrible at it, Tom Waits usually has to bury it inside a character, narrative, or faux-spiritual gospelization, John Lennon never managed not to sound like a dickhole when trying it, and the more it has engulfed Springsteen's writing the more it has turned his humanist and empathic stories into a series of bad caricatures.

The other side to that is, if you write to capture the journey but never try to draw any consequential conclusions, then the journey has no sense of having mattered and ultimately seems to have been a fruitless endeavor. As odd as Cat Stevens' story is, if he'd made those first five or six records and then (shrug) just kept on making music and being a star for another 40 years without a backwards glance, it would have affected the authenticity of the search those recordings were documenting.

this actually helps me understand the mcparadigm account--it's just a lost soul searching for meaning

Applying and projecting meaning onto things, where none exist, and then being upset and downplaying the quality of the song involved, is a long running funk RMers of a certain ilk have been befuddled with for a long time.

dimejinky99 wrote:Applying and projecting meaning onto things, where none exist, and then being upset and downplaying the quality of the song involved, is a long running funk RMers of a certain ilk have been befuddled with for a long time.

Dime, you'll never top this post.

Alex wrote:this actually helps me understand the mcparadigm account--it's just a lost soul searching for meaning

Q: Vich pants does Olga vare ven she is sad?
A: Despair!

dimejinky99 wrote:Applying and projecting meaning onto things, where none exist

Who would have figured dime to be the guy with the most pessimistic perspective on the Pearl Jam catalog?

durdencommatyler wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Applying and projecting meaning onto things, where none exist, and then being upset and downplaying the quality of the song involved, is a long running funk RMers of a certain ilk have been befuddled with for a long time.

Dime, you'll never top this post.

I dunno. My bets work is ahead of me apparently (i mean, it can only get better right?)

dimejinky99 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Applying and projecting meaning onto things, where none exist, and then being upset and downplaying the quality of the song involved, is a long running funk RMers of a certain ilk have been befuddled with for a long time.

Dime, you'll never top this post.

I dunno. My bets work is ahead of me apparently (i mean, it can only get better right?)

Sometimes I think you're a second account

bets.


see?

durdencommatyler wrote:

stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Its biggest flaw is probably that stupid moss line in "Who You Are".

No, yeah, forget everything I said before. This is right.

I like your underwater description earlier.



And I don't know that I'd go so far as to defend that lyric, but it does send a signal that the song is meant to be playful stab at faux mysticism. Without that line the song invites you to take it more seriously, which plays against its strengths

I think the inclusion of the words "soul" and "moss" do a much better job of cementing the song's playfulness.

we're agreeing here, right?

digster wrote:

stip wrote:

digster wrote:I never really heard No Code as being a 'wisdom' record, where Ed imparts to the people what he's learned. Even on stuff like Present Tense or I'm Open, I don't think there's any indication that he is confident about his stances. An album being a catalog of truths learned makes more sense with Yield than with No Code. The latter is sputtering all over the place, trying to make sense of the shitstorm that occurred during Vitalogy. It's what makes it such a compelling listen.

I certainly agree there is more of that on yield. But I think it begins with no code. Songs like who you are and especially present tense come to mind

It's there, but I don't know if it's coming from a place of actual knowledge, vs. grasping at the hope of it. Basically, what you've said in the past about Yield (that it's a record with a 'lie' at its center), actually pertains much better to No Code, imo.

I need to shunt all my album thoughts back one record. I wonder if the shit I've said about Ten works for MLB

McParadigm wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Applying and projecting meaning onto things, where none exist, and then being upset and downplaying the quality of the song involved, is a long running funk RMers of a certain ilk have been befuddled with for a long time.

Dime, you'll never top this post.

I dunno. My bets work is ahead of me apparently (i mean, it can only get better right?)

Sometimes I think you're a second account

No. Been on RM since 06 i think?
No time for a second account, bipolar enough without encouraging it to manifest in another guise...

I can't wait for season three of dimejinky99.

durdencommatyler wrote:I can't wait for season three of dimejinky99.

McParadigm wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I can't wait for season three of dimejinky99.

Any episode of Father ted, that Graham Norton is in...pure genius.