Red Mosquito

Strat wrote:Its just hard for me, at times, to wrap my head around how big pearl jam really is. I fell in love with them at the age of 11 years old and they have always been "my band". Ive had tunnel vision on them forever. I had only a couple friends who also loved them but mostly I was mocked for liking pearl jam. They were huge at first, yes, and then radio hits dwindled away for many many years. It amazs me and it is also a beautiful thing that an entire arena can get behind and sing present tense and yet that was never on the radio or a hit. This goes for many songs in their catalog. They have done a really swell job at building their career without (up until a few years ago) really putting much effort into being the biggest band in the world. U2 has always been hit makers (maybe except for a small period) but they have also always been in your face. So it makes sense to me the world loves u2.

Good on pearl jam. I think they sounded great, did a good job with the song choices and appeared to al be having a good time.

It amazs me and it is also a beautiful thing that an entire arena can get behind and sing present tense and yet that was never on the radio or a hit. This goes for many songs in their catalog.

One point I deleted off my post before was that if No Code were a Foo Fighters record, it would be their second biggest selling (and pretty close to their biggest).

Hell, if you invented a band that matched all of PJ's album sales AFTER the big first three, you'd actually have a band that was comparable to the Foos or Radiohead in terms of US sales.

Obviously sales are a poor analytical tool for big picture casting, but they do offer a degree of concrete scope-setting for what is a very nearly uninterpretable topic. No Code hasn't had the massive late-era reappreciation that it warrants, but it's not a poor selling record (or catalog record) by any measurement other than something like early Pearl Jam's. It's basically somewhere between Who Sell Out, Pop, and Ghost of Tom Joad...records that aren't remotely on a level with those bands' biggest moments, are abnormal within the catalog, are appreciated by fans (even Pop...), and are hardly unheard secrets. Bruce can play Youngstown and the place goes mad. Plenty of casual U2 fans can talk about Wake Up Dead Man or Mofo. If The Who play Our Love Was, the audience will squeal even if they don't recognize it because it is catchy, abnormal but still Who-like, and easily digested.

Somewhere in there, you have a track like Present Tense.

Actually, I just compared No Code to three records it has outsold. So maybe I'm being a tad unfair.

i didn't realize no code outsold pop.

I thought the same thing, Stip. I know "Pop" was generally regarded as a failure but I remember those songs being *everywhere* that summer. "No Code" seemed like it barely registered on a public level. Cool, I guess.

I guess Pop was actually about even with No Code in the initial (1.3 million), but as of 2014 the numbers were 1.6 and 1.7, so the latter has been a stronger catalog album. Yeah, Pop was heavily promoted (remember that ABC special?), and had a massive stadium tour to support it as well.

McP, I presume these are just American numbers? Maybe I read something about global sales once, but I thought pop, an 'unsuccessful' U2 album, still sold millions of copies.

McParadigm wrote:I guess Pop was actually about even with No Code in the initial (1.3 million), but as of 2014 the numbers were 1.6 and 1.7, so the latter has been a stronger catalog album. Yeah, Pop was heavily promoted (remember that ABC special?), and had a massive stadium tour to support it as well.

I saw them on that tour. My first and only U2 show. It was decent but not a particularly memorable show.

Pretty sure I stated that I was looking exclusively at American numbers at some point. Maybe not.

Worldwide, No Code is around 3 million, while Pop is harder to determine. One article a while back had it at 4, but it's often credited at 6 (this appears to have originated with a U2 press release, so...).

But all this started with a discussion about American audiences and how the band is perceived by people at a show like this one, so that's why I focused on that.

What do these stores have in common? Best Buy, Target, Fred Meyer, Wal Mart, and Kmart
I tell you what less than 40 miles south of Seattle none of these stores have a single Pearl Jam studio album. I found one copy of Rearviewmirror at best buy. Thats how big there not. Funny story. I was at the Raw Power event I witnessed to groups of 20 something y/o. Saying this not word for word, but close "One these guys is in Pearl Jam" "Who is PearlJam?" "There from Seattle" "Oh like Nirvanna" Then The guy goes on to describe there big song that starts with the words "now maybe" He is singing it! It is Candlebox. His Pearl Jam is Candlebox. I also heard Pearl Jam called the band that plays that song you like you know "Stay With Me" ie Just Breathe, or I think Ugly Kid Joe had a song called "Stay With Me" So I am not sure. This all happened at concert featuring Pj guitar monkey sound master Mcready in Seattle.

What do these stores have in common? Best Buy, Target, Fred Meyer, Wal Mart, and Kmart
I tell you what less than 40 miles south of Seattle none of these stores have a single Pearl Jam studio album. I found one copy of Rearviewmirror at best buy. Thats how big there not. Funny story. I was at the Raw Power event I witnessed two groups of 20 something y/o. Saying this not word for word, but close "One these guys is in Pearl Jam" "Who is PearlJam?" "There from Seattle" "Oh like Nirvanna" Then The guy goes on to describe there big song that starts with the words "now maybe" He is singing it! It is Candlebox. His Pearl Jam is Candlebox. I also heard Pearl Jam called the band that plays that song you like you know "Stay With Me" ie Just Breathe, or I think Ugly Kid Joe had a song called "Stay With Me" So I am not sure. This all happened at concert featuring Pj guitar monkey sound master Mcready in Seattle.

What do these stores have in common? Best Buy, Target, Fred Meyer, Wal Mart, and Kmart
I tell you what less than 40 miles south of Seattle none of these stores have a single Pearl Jam studio album. I found one copy of Rearviewmirror at best buy. Thats how big they're not. Funny story. I was at the Raw Power event I witnessed two groups of 20 something y/o. Saying this not word for word, but close "One these guys is in Pearl Jam" "Who is PearlJam?" "There from Seattle" "Oh like Nirvanna" Then The guy goes on to describe there big song that starts with the words "now maybe" He is singing it! It is Candlebox. His Pearl Jam is Candlebox. I also heard Pearl Jam called the band that plays that song you like you know "Stay With Me" ie Just Breathe, or I think Ugly Kid Joe had a song called "Stay With Me" So I am not sure. This all happened at concert featuring Pj guitar monkey sound master Mcready in Seattle.

Tj wrote:What do these stores have in common? Best Buy, Target, Fred Meyer, Wal Mart, and Kmart
I tell you what less than 40 miles south of Seattle none of these stores have a single Pearl Jam studio album. I found one copy of Rearviewmirror at best buy. Thats how big there not. Funny story. I was at the Raw Power event I witnessed to groups of 20 something y/o. Saying this not word for word, but close "One these guys is in Pearl Jam" "Who is PearlJam?" "There from Seattle" "Oh like Nirvanna" Then The guy goes on to describe there big song that starts with the words "now maybe" He is singing it! It is Candlebox. His Pearl Jam is Candlebox. I also heard Pearl Jam called the band that plays that song you like you know "Stay With Me" ie Just Breathe, or I think Ugly Kid Joe had a song called "Stay With Me" So I am not sure. This all happened at concert featuring Pj guitar monkey sound master Mcready in Seattle.

I'd say kids are stupid but here are more stories. At least they'd heard of The Stooges.
http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... 322#p72322

Apocryphal stories are exactly why I bring sales figures into this. When I worked briefly on the Love and Theft tour, the audiences were brutally old and the other 20-something kid backstage was bored and admitted to me that he didn't even like "Bob Denver." What I saw and heard doesn't change the fact of what that album did for Bob among music fans.

The 90s were actually pretty unique in their adoration of the past. Some of that came from being smack dab in the middle of a constant re-issue cycle that had most classic artists constantly in promo mode (when you look at sales certifications, all of these bands have huge explosions of platinum awards in the 90's). Some of it came from the hippy doodah bs of the era being a gift from the past. A lot of those artists had floundered as they hit middle-age in the 80s, and were rediscovering themselves in a way that fostered excitement. Having the era's major youth acts expounding their greatness didn't hurt.

In general, the youth of any era don't know much about the past. Why should they? Not many of the people in this board were 16 when they found Tom Waits, or purposefully sat down to listen to a Rolling Stones record. And we came from the time when "classic artists" were both a big deal and milking it as loudly as they possibly could.

McParadigm wrote:Pretty sure I stated that I was looking exclusively at American numbers at some point. Maybe not.

Worldwide, No Code is around 3 million, while Pop is harder to determine. One article a while back had it at 4, but it's often credited at 6 (this appears to have originated with a U2 press release, so...).

But all this started with a discussion about American audiences and how the band is perceived by people at a show like this one, so that's why I focused on that.

that's fine and makes sense. Just checking.

McParadigm wrote:Apocryphal stories are exactly why I bring sales figures into this. When I worked briefly on the Love and Theft tour, the audiences were brutally old and the other 20-something kid backstage was bored and admitted to me that he didn't even like "Bob Denver." What I saw and heard doesn't change the fact of what that album did for Bob among music fans.

The 90s were actually pretty unique in their adoration of the past. Some of that came from being smack dab in the middle of a constant re-issue cycle that had most classic artists constantly in promo mode (when you look at sales certifications, all of these bands have huge explosions of platinum awards in the 90's). Some of it came from the hippy doodah bs of the era being a gift from the past. A lot of those artists had floundered as they hit middle-age in the 80s, and were rediscovering themselves in a way that fostered excitement. Having the era's major youth acts expounding their greatness didn't hurt.

In general, the youth of any era don't know much about the past. Why should they? Not many of the people in this board were 16 when they found Tom Waits, or purposefully sat down to listen to a Rolling Stones record. And we came from the time when "classic artists" were both a big deal and milking it as loudly as they possibly could.

it's nice when you use your powers for good

McParadigm wrote:Apocryphal stories are exactly why I bring sales figures into this. When I worked briefly on the Love and Theft tour, the audiences were brutally old and the other 20-something kid backstage was bored and admitted to me that he didn't even like "Bob Denver." What I saw and heard doesn't change the fact of what that album did for Bob among music fans.

The 90s were actually pretty unique in their adoration of the past. Some of that came from being smack dab in the middle of a constant re-issue cycle that had most classic artists constantly in promo mode (when you look at sales certifications, all of these bands have huge explosions of platinum awards in the 90's). Some of it came from the hippy doodah bs of the era being a gift from the past. A lot of those artists had floundered as they hit middle-age in the 80s, and were rediscovering themselves in a way that fostered excitement. Having the era's major youth acts expounding their greatness didn't hurt.

In general, the youth of any era don't know much about the past. Why should they? Not many of the people in this board were 16 when they found Tom Waits, or purposefully sat down to listen to a Rolling Stones record. And we came from the time when "classic artists" were both a big deal and milking it as loudly as they possibly could.

What did you just call me?

Sensuous.

Tj wrote:What do these stores have in common? Best Buy, Target, Fred Meyer, Wal Mart, and Kmart
I tell you what less than 40 miles south of Seattle none of these stores have a single Pearl Jam studio album. I found one copy of Rearviewmirror at best buy. Thats how big there not. Funny story. I was at the Raw Power event I witnessed two groups of 20 something y/o. Saying this not word for word, but close "One these guys is in Pearl Jam" "Who is PearlJam?" "There from Seattle" "Oh like Nirvanna" Then The guy goes on to describe there big song that starts with the words "now maybe" He is singing it! It is Candlebox. His Pearl Jam is Candlebox. I also heard Pearl Jam called the band that plays that song you like you know "Stay With Me" ie Just Breathe, or I think Ugly Kid Joe had a song called "Stay With Me" So I am not sure. This all happened at concert featuring Pj guitar monkey sound master Mcready in Seattle.

I live 1,600 miles from Seattle and my local Target/Best Buy/Walmart all have PJ records regularly. Maybe PJ is just so popular where you are that they just sell out as soon as they hit the shelves. Obviously the people you overheard aren't fans of PJ's genre of music, or they just think every band from the early '90s that isn't Nirvana is PJ. Either way, you are quoting dumb or uninformed people at a shitty cover band event.

Also, wtf is Fred Meyer? Never heard of it/him.

Also, please try to understand the difference between there/their/they're. The word "there" doesn't cover all three meanings.

Tj Max-imum 'There' usage