Red Mosquito

theplatypus wrote:

evenslow wrote:This is wonderful.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle ... story.html

Look, I’m sure they’re very nice people, but on their fourth album, “Reflektor,” Arcade Fire still sound like gigantic dorks with boring sex lives.

Aw. That's just unnecessary.

Still haven't listened to this. I like "Reflektor", the single, a whole lot. The internet's abuzz with debate about the album, though, which is usually a good sign.

Well, it's kind of necessary, based on the steady stream of hosannahs and hallelujahs sent toward AF in the last few weeks (and years). It's trolling, but it's wonderfully done trolling. In the Washington Post, no less.

Look, I like Arcade Fire. They've got some really great moments and they're a good live experience (especially 5-7 years ago). But I too often get the feeling that the emperor has no clothes. They're hitting all the hallmarks and signifiers of being a BIG IMPORTANT BAND (concept albums, pushing their sound, Bruce/Bowie/Byrne), but don't always have the songs/chops to back that up. I get the sense a lot of people are trying hard to like Arcade Fire more than they actually like Arcade Fire. To my mind, they're easily a big notch below all the people in the epic, sweeping club they're trying to join: Springsteen, Bowie, Talking Heads, U2, The Clash, and apparently Chic.

And that's okay, most artists never rise to the top level. Being "good" is good. But that's not sexy and it's harder to write.

I think it sounds slightly funny that any fan of new Pearl Jam can argue that anyone else is "trying to like" Arcade Fire. I liked all of their previous albums on very first listen. I loved Neon Bible. I also liked this one. In contrast, everything by PJ since Yield I've had to "let grow on me". I don't know whether I think Arcade Fire are the "second coming", but it seems to me that if anyone does, that's the fault of media expectation. All they need to be is a very, very good band, and they are.

If anyone is a fraud at the moment I think it's PJ. When did they become worthy of "great American rock band" / HoF status? Since writing S/T, Backspacer and Lightning Bolt?

I knew the Pearl Jam fan thing was going to come, but that was fast.

Doesn't make it any less lazy.

Well, I'm a Pearl Jam fan too, which is why I didn't think it was a dig. It wasn't a dig, and I'm sorry if you thought it was. I'm just not sure what standards Arcade Fire have to meet in order for them to be a really good band and not "frauds". Is it a case of "emperor's new clothes" if everything the media mythologises about them isn't true? Because if that's the case, then I think PJ are a good comparison.

harmless wrote:If anyone is a fraud at the moment I think it's PJ. When did they become worthy of "great American rock band" / HoF status? Since writing S/T, Backspacer and Lightning Bolt?

No, since Ten > Yield.

And, though we are on a Pearl Jam board, Pearl Jam is not material to the point I made. There are a million other rejoinders you could have thought of, but that was the easiest apparently.

I wasn't citing you specifically either, fwiw. You're a music lover who thinks about music and context. I would, however, bet you everything I have in the bank (granted, nothing) that most of the people who buy Reflektor this year will not be playing it in five years time.

harmless wrote:Well, I'm a Pearl Jam fan too, which is why I didn't think it was a dig. It wasn't a dig, and I'm sorry if you thought it was. I'm just not sure what standards Arcade Fire have to meet in order for them to be a really good band and not "frauds". Is it a case of "emperor's new clothes" if everything the media mythologises about them isn't true? Because if that's the case, then I think PJ are a good comparison.

A) I could care less if anyone shits on me for liking Pearl Jam. If I did care, I would have given up in 1992. Again, it was just a lazy point made lazily.
B) I don't think Arcade Fire are a bunch of frauds. I said that while they are a good band and I like them, they're not worthy of the best and the brightest they're clearly aiming to be.
C) Now if you'll excuse me, I have some Sinead O'Connor to listen to.

evenslow wrote:

harmless wrote:If anyone is a fraud at the moment I think it's PJ. When did they become worthy of "great American rock band" / HoF status? Since writing S/T, Backspacer and Lightning Bolt?

No, since Ten > Yield.

And, though we are on a Pearl Jam board, Pearl Jam is not material to the point I made. There are a million other rejoinders you could have thought of, but that was the easiest apparently.

I wasn't citing you specifically either, fwiw. You're a music lover who thinks about music and context. I would, however, bet you everything I have in the bank (granted, nothing) that most of the people who buy Reflektor this year will not be playing it in five years time.

That may well be true, I just don't know what that means, or how significant that is, in the grand scheme of things. Great bands will be forgotten in five years, and terrible bands will be remembered. Hence my cynicism of PJ the HoF band. There wasn't even a whiff of "grunge survivor" or "great American rock band" memes during the middle period -- they were seen as has-beens (for the very albums they're now famed for). All these memes have appeared since S/T. It's a media marketing machine which has created them, and very recently. Which says nothing about Pearl Jam's music, positively or negatively. So in terms of "emperor's new clothes", I'm not sure what Arcade Fire are meant to be failing to do on their own terms. If they're failing to live up to the media-created memes and expectations surrounding them, I'm not surprised.

evenslow wrote:

harmless wrote:Well, I'm a Pearl Jam fan too, which is why I didn't think it was a dig. It wasn't a dig, and I'm sorry if you thought it was. I'm just not sure what standards Arcade Fire have to meet in order for them to be a really good band and not "frauds". Is it a case of "emperor's new clothes" if everything the media mythologises about them isn't true? Because if that's the case, then I think PJ are a good comparison.

A) I could care less if anyone shits on me for liking Pearl Jam. If I did care, I would have given up in 1992. Again, it was just a lazy point made lazily.
B) I don't think Arcade Fire are a bunch of frauds. I said that while they are a good band and I like them, they're not worthy of the best and the brightest they're clearly aiming to be.
C) Now if you'll excuse me, I have some Sinead O'Connor to listen to.

this is my favorite post in this thread

evenslow wrote:

harmless wrote:Well, I'm a Pearl Jam fan too, which is why I didn't think it was a dig. It wasn't a dig, and I'm sorry if you thought it was. I'm just not sure what standards Arcade Fire have to meet in order for them to be a really good band and not "frauds". Is it a case of "emperor's new clothes" if everything the media mythologises about them isn't true? Because if that's the case, then I think PJ are a good comparison.

A) I could care less if anyone shits on me for liking Pearl Jam. If I did care, I would have given up in 1992. Again, it was just a lazy point made lazily.
B) I don't think Arcade Fire are a bunch of frauds. I said that while they are a good band and I like them, they're not worthy of the best and the brightest they're clearly aiming to be.
C) Now if you'll excuse me, I have some Sinead O'Connor to listen to.

A) I wasn't trying to argue, or have a fight. But I saw a comparison about expectations vs. the actual product. The comparison was easy, but not lazy.
B) I am interested in why you think they're clearly aiming to be anything, any more than PJ are. And if PJ are claiming to be what I've said they are, are they succeeding at it where AF are failing?
C) Enjoy.

evenslow wrote:it's wonderfully done trolling.

Is it, though?

Nah.

evenslow wrote: I would, however, bet you everything I have in the bank (granted, nothing) that most of the people who buy Reflektor this year will not be playing it in five years time.

Baseless, asinine and irrelevant

harmless wrote:If they're failing to live up to the media-created memes and expectations surrounding them, I'm not surprised.

More importantly, I think they're failing to live up to the expectations they set out for themselves. Reach exceeds grasp. And that's fine, I'm glad they're reaching.

evenslow wrote:

harmless wrote:If they're failing to live up to the media-created memes and expectations surrounding them, I'm not surprised.

More importantly, I think they're failing to live up to the expectations they set out for themselves. Reach exceeds grasp. And that's fine, I'm glad they're reaching.

What expectations have they set out for themselves? I'm genuinely not trying to be an ass, I'm curious.

theplatypus wrote:

evenslow wrote: I would, however, bet you everything I have in the bank (granted, nothing) that most of the people who buy Reflektor this year will not be playing it in five years time.

Baseless, asinine and irrelevant

Go on...

harmless wrote:

evenslow wrote:

harmless wrote:If they're failing to live up to the media-created memes and expectations surrounding them, I'm not surprised.

More importantly, I think they're failing to live up to the expectations they set out for themselves. Reach exceeds grasp. And that's fine, I'm glad they're reaching.

What expectations have they set out for themselves? I'm genuinely not trying to be an ass, I'm curious.

Read my first post again. It's like latter-day Pearl Jam - will get better the more you try it.

How's everyone?

Making my way through this dump right now. Normal Person and We Exist are fantastic.

evenslow wrote:

harmless wrote:

evenslow wrote:

harmless wrote:If they're failing to live up to the media-created memes and expectations surrounding them, I'm not surprised.

More importantly, I think they're failing to live up to the expectations they set out for themselves. Reach exceeds grasp. And that's fine, I'm glad they're reaching.

What expectations have they set out for themselves? I'm genuinely not trying to be an ass, I'm curious.

Read my first post again. It's like latter-day Pearl Jam - will get better the more you try it.

I think some people will have that reaction, but others will be hooked straight away, as I have been so far. Time will tell how much I like this album, but like Pearl Jam, Arcade Fire's track record makes me feel this one deserves a chance.

Guys, this thread is to celebrate Arcade Fire's admittedly asexual awesomeness. Please stop talking about the train wreck of mediocrity otherwise known as Pearl Jam.

Are we allowed to make any comparisons at all with other bands?