Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

daft twat wrote:

stip wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

daft twat wrote:Here is the one thing I can't get past if it's okay to not like the movie despite several RM heavyweights loving it (or convincing themselves they do after 5 or 6 viewings):

In RotJ, Luke was sacrificing his life for the small chance he could save his father. I don't believe the same person would then even for a second think about murdering his nephew in his sleep because he sees darkness in him. Even if I could be convinced the Dark Side is just that powerful, no way Luke just runs and hides, waiting to die in peace he doesn't deserve. He would spend his remaining days trying to right his wrong, trying to save his sister's son. And then the formerly Puritan-dry farm boy spent decades of isolation developing a really sarcastic sense of humor after ruining multiple lives. Who gives a shit if he's powerful or got to look at 2 goddam suns when he died? Subjectively, I think Rian got Luke waaaaay wrong, and that's why despite liking a lot about the movie, I hate it. When it's finally run its course at the b.o. or on dvd, I expect Mark will express similar displeasure. Again.

This is a really good point

That point assumes that Luke was never conflicted, never had doubts, never wondered if it would be easier. Hell, he has a whole DUEL against the father he is trying to save, and comes seconds away from striking him down in anger. Hell, he probably would have done it if the emperor hadn't overplayed his hand by goading him. Luke's power comes from making the right decision in the end, not from always being perfect.

And there is nothing in Luke's life that, in terms of mental trauma, comes close to what Luke experiences with the Kylo's fall, the death of his students, etc.


But while I disagree with you, that is a worthwhile argument made by referencing the existing texts and drawing a plausible interpretation from them. I think it's less interesting than what they did (and denies the character any room for further growth),and I don't share that interpretation of the character, but it makes sense and is thoughtful.


And I WISH I've seen it 5-6 times already. I can't fucking wait. I've almost gone out every night since Friday to see it again. Tomorrow, though

What about finding out Vader was his father? Or watching Ben die? Finding his aunt and uncle's charred bodies? The cave on Dagobah? He'd seen some shit.

He freaked out when Ben died and almost ruined their escape, and tried to kill himself when he found out about Vader. And the cave was a failure. Luke has a history of overreacting

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

stip wrote:Jesus, dime, walk it back a notch

Well if we’re gonna get into name calling he’s the only one that actually did that. Plus I’ve been banned for more worthy and far less statements.

LMAO what? Don’t be a pussy, own your words, dork

dimejinky99 wrote:

stip wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

stip wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

stip wrote:Here's a question. Was the light speed kamikaze attack the most striking visual effect in Star Wars history?

Not even close.

go on...

I think it’s easy to lose sight of how revolutionary and influential the previous SW movies were. Lucas created a space opera that was more breathless and seamless than any movies previously seen. The visual effects of the OT were frontier filmmaking. How could anything in TLJ even hope to match the simple sight of seeing a lightsaber ignite for the first time?

From a historical standpoint absolutely. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But looking with 2017 eyes

So a Star Wars film only succeeds if it lives up to the hardwired double fastened qualifying standard of the original trilogy. Right.

daft twat wrote:

stip wrote:

daft twat wrote:

stip wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

daft twat wrote:Here is the one thing I can't get past if it's okay to not like the movie despite several RM heavyweights loving it (or convincing themselves they do after 5 or 6 viewings):

In RotJ, Luke was sacrificing his life for the small chance he could save his father. I don't believe the same person would then even for a second think about murdering his nephew in his sleep because he sees darkness in him. Even if I could be convinced the Dark Side is just that powerful, no way Luke just runs and hides, waiting to die in peace he doesn't deserve. He would spend his remaining days trying to right his wrong, trying to save his sister's son. And then the formerly Puritan-dry farm boy spent decades of isolation developing a really sarcastic sense of humor after ruining multiple lives. Who gives a shit if he's powerful or got to look at 2 goddam suns when he died? Subjectively, I think Rian got Luke waaaaay wrong, and that's why despite liking a lot about the movie, I hate it. When it's finally run its course at the b.o. or on dvd, I expect Mark will express similar displeasure. Again.

This is a really good point

That point assumes that Luke was never conflicted, never had doubts, never wondered if it would be easier. Hell, he has a whole DUEL against the father he is trying to save, and comes seconds away from striking him down in anger. Hell, he probably would have done it if the emperor hadn't overplayed his hand by goading him. Luke's power comes from making the right decision in the end, not from always being perfect.

And there is nothing in Luke's life that, in terms of mental trauma, comes close to what Luke experiences with the Kylo's fall, the death of his students, etc.


But while I disagree with you, that is a worthwhile argument made by referencing the existing texts and drawing a plausible interpretation from them. I think it's less interesting than what they did (and denies the character any room for further growth),and I don't share that interpretation of the character, but it makes sense and is thoughtful.


And I WISH I've seen it 5-6 times already. I can't fucking wait. I've almost gone out every night since Friday to see it again. Tomorrow, though

What about finding out Vader was his father? Or watching Ben die? Finding his aunt and uncle's charred bodies? The cave on Dagobah? He'd seen some shit.

He freaked out when Ben died and almost ruined their escape, and tried to kill himself when he found out about Vader. And the cave was a failure. Luke has a history of overreacting

In A New Hope and Empire, yes. But he grew. And he reacted. He didn't run away.

I also don't believe he was trying to kill himself in Empire. He might have been, but his face when he let go seemed like he knew he wasn't about to die.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

stip wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

stip wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

stip wrote:Here's a question. Was the light speed kamikaze attack the most striking visual effect in Star Wars history?

Not even close.

go on...

I think it’s easy to lose sight of how revolutionary and influential the previous SW movies were. Lucas created a space opera that was more breathless and seamless than any movies previously seen. The visual effects of the OT were frontier filmmaking. How could anything in TLJ even hope to match the simple sight of seeing a lightsaber ignite for the first time?

From a historical standpoint absolutely. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But looking with 2017 eyes

So a Star Wars film only succeeds if it lives up to the hardwired double fastened qualifying standard of the original trilogy. Right.

Can you even read?

stip wrote:

daft twat wrote:

stip wrote:

daft twat wrote:

stip wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

daft twat wrote:Here is the one thing I can't get past if it's okay to not like the movie despite several RM heavyweights loving it (or convincing themselves they do after 5 or 6 viewings):

In RotJ, Luke was sacrificing his life for the small chance he could save his father. I don't believe the same person would then even for a second think about murdering his nephew in his sleep because he sees darkness in him. Even if I could be convinced the Dark Side is just that powerful, no way Luke just runs and hides, waiting to die in peace he doesn't deserve. He would spend his remaining days trying to right his wrong, trying to save his sister's son. And then the formerly Puritan-dry farm boy spent decades of isolation developing a really sarcastic sense of humor after ruining multiple lives. Who gives a shit if he's powerful or got to look at 2 goddam suns when he died? Subjectively, I think Rian got Luke waaaaay wrong, and that's why despite liking a lot about the movie, I hate it. When it's finally run its course at the b.o. or on dvd, I expect Mark will express similar displeasure. Again.

This is a really good point

That point assumes that Luke was never conflicted, never had doubts, never wondered if it would be easier. Hell, he has a whole DUEL against the father he is trying to save, and comes seconds away from striking him down in anger. Hell, he probably would have done it if the emperor hadn't overplayed his hand by goading him. Luke's power comes from making the right decision in the end, not from always being perfect.

And there is nothing in Luke's life that, in terms of mental trauma, comes close to what Luke experiences with the Kylo's fall, the death of his students, etc.


But while I disagree with you, that is a worthwhile argument made by referencing the existing texts and drawing a plausible interpretation from them. I think it's less interesting than what they did (and denies the character any room for further growth),and I don't share that interpretation of the character, but it makes sense and is thoughtful.


And I WISH I've seen it 5-6 times already. I can't fucking wait. I've almost gone out every night since Friday to see it again. Tomorrow, though

What about finding out Vader was his father? Or watching Ben die? Finding his aunt and uncle's charred bodies? The cave on Dagobah? He'd seen some shit.

He freaked out when Ben died and almost ruined their escape, and tried to kill himself when he found out about Vader. And the cave was a failure. Luke has a history of overreacting

In A New Hope and Empire, yes. But he grew. And he reacted. He didn't run away.

I also don't believe he was trying to kill himself in Empire. He might have been, but his face when he let go seemed like he knew he wasn't about to die.

He was seconds away from turning to the darkside in a fit of rage in Jedi.
And it's been a little while but I am pretty sure the look on his face in Empire is someone who has given up

Luke becomes a saint in the EU books, but not in the movies. He's pretty flawed, but rises above when it counts

stip wrote:it was a pretty weak threat, given everything else that had already happened. She was dead anyone. He was pretty easily goaded and prone to the dark side (which is in his blood)

stip wrote:it was a pretty weak threat, given everything else that had already happened. She was dead anyone. He was pretty easily goaded and prone to the dark side (which is in his blood)

daft twat wrote:

stip wrote:it was a pretty weak threat, given everything else that had already happened. She was dead anyone. He was pretty easily goaded and prone to the dark side (which is in his blood)

Easily goaded? So not the type to stand by for years. He had to feel the disturbance of the planet wiped out in TFA. Did he just shake it off and head down to the ocean to have suckle of a sea donkey?

stip wrote:At that point he had given up. He also says in the film that he had cut himself off from the force. Rey specifically mentions she can't sense him. He may not have noticed. He can't even sense Chewie


And when Rey brings it up his response is point out that there's nothing he can do. He can't go out and use his lightsaber to murder the entire first order. He's had enough. The world's problems aren't his anymore.

Rangi Guy wrote:Was it Pearl Jam or Star Wars that ultimately tore us apart though?

Strat wrote:RM has become fucking awful.