Red Mosquito

Kaius wrote:

daft twat wrote:

Kaius wrote:Ppl on both sides are tossing around the fanboy term. It's become meaningless.

Agreed. Also, I'm not mad at people who enjoyed or loved TLJ. I'm jealous. I wish I was with you in the same way I wish I believed in god. It must be nice. That said, I think the people in this thread who are the film's biggest proponents have been boorish about it.

I've seen it once. I really enjoyed the movie. It wasn't perfect, but me and my 11-year-old daughter both had a blast. Initially, I liked where they took the story, and I was surprised to find so much attention on the (mis)handling of Luke Skywalker when I got online later that evening. Then I see even Mark Hamill though it was shit (in so many words). Now, he's just a guy, but I'm starting to understand the other perspective, and it has me wondering what could have been done better to bring more of the crowd to the light. Because I tend to think the ppl who liked the arc (and movie) would probably have liked it no matter which direction it went (to a certain standard of quality that is).

For the record....when i walked out of the studio i was perturbed and wasn't sure how I felt. I was not one bit excited about what I just saw. I had a huge fat "Hmm" on my face.

I can honestly say that once i dropped my expectations and my own desires for what i wanted the movie to be....I started to understand and love the actual story presented to me.

Would I have liked Luke pulling the X Wing out of the Ocean, not sucked island cow titty, joined the fight and destroyed everyone? Of course. I would still enjoy that.

But i would have enjoyed it on the same level that I enjoyed TFA. "Wow, that was fun, that was great, that was star wars".

If I would have gotten that again - Im not sure there would be any staying power in any of it.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Remember, obi wan also had maul out there still alive. He almost had to stay on Luke's planet to protect him from maul

No. No he didnt. No matter what a cartoon made up 40 years later.

Also, if we are going to bring that into it.....then yes....there might be many cartoons and books about retconning why Luke Skywalker exactly was the way he was.

Bottom paged again

No i fixed that!

Strat wrote:

daft twat wrote:

Strat wrote:

daft twat wrote:

Kaius wrote:Ppl on both sides are tossing around the fanboy term. It's become meaningless.

Agreed. Also, I'm not mad at people who enjoyed or loved TLJ. I'm jealous. I wish I was with you in the same way I wish I believed in god. It must be nice. That said, I think the people in this thread who are the film's biggest proponents have been boorish about it.

You feed off controversy. I should call you a fucking homo nazi sympathizer with awful tastes in beer, women, life, states, and general purpose for not loving TLJ.


Then you'd respect me for enjoying TLJ!

I'll respect you for other things. What are you drinking this evening?

I had a Gin and Ginger (beer) but followed that up with an Oskar Blues Tenfiddy.

Yourself? You still off the sauce?

No. 7 weeks dry and then the holidays hit. It was a convenient excuse. Family vacation next week, though, so I'll be dry again starting on Saturday for at least a week.

Strat wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Remember, obi wan also had maul out there still alive. He almost had to stay on Luke's planet to protect him from maul

No. No he didnt. No matter what a cartoon made up 40 years later.

Also, if we are going to bring that into it.....then yes....there might be many cartoons and books about retconning why Luke Skywalker exactly was the way he was.

Ok cool

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

Strat wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Remember, obi wan also had maul out there still alive. He almost had to stay on Luke's planet to protect him from maul

No. No he didnt. No matter what a cartoon made up 40 years later.

Also, if we are going to bring that into it.....then yes....there might be many cartoons and books about retconning why Luke Skywalker exactly was the way he was.

Ok cool

Don't be mad at me.

daft twat wrote:

Strat wrote:

daft twat wrote:

Strat wrote:

daft twat wrote:

Kaius wrote:Ppl on both sides are tossing around the fanboy term. It's become meaningless.

Agreed. Also, I'm not mad at people who enjoyed or loved TLJ. I'm jealous. I wish I was with you in the same way I wish I believed in god. It must be nice. That said, I think the people in this thread who are the film's biggest proponents have been boorish about it.

You feed off controversy. I should call you a fucking homo nazi sympathizer with awful tastes in beer, women, life, states, and general purpose for not loving TLJ.


Then you'd respect me for enjoying TLJ!

I'll respect you for other things. What are you drinking this evening?

I had a Gin and Ginger (beer) but followed that up with an Oskar Blues Tenfiddy.

Yourself? You still off the sauce?

No. 7 weeks dry and then the holidays hit. It was a convenient excuse. Family vacation next week, though, so I'll be dry again starting on Saturday for at least a week.

But the holiday goes through Monday and the new year?

Leatherhead wrote:

Kaius wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:Yoda and Obi-Wan probably could've taken on Vader and Palpatine. I'm sure they could've devised a plan to stage a 2v2 battle.

Idk man.... Yoda couldn't really hang with Palpatine. I don't think Obi Wan would have tipped the scales in their favor.

Seems like a pretty close fight to me.

Yoda is on his heels for most of the fight, and doesn't seem to be having as much fun as Sidious. Dark side/light side and all that aside, Emperor showed quite a bit more power in that battle.

I'm not. I'm just not going to argue the semantics of Canon storylines. Plus, I'm pretty sure you are mad at me for not liking TLJ as much as you!

Kaius wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:

Kaius wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:Yoda and Obi-Wan probably could've taken on Vader and Palpatine. I'm sure they could've devised a plan to stage a 2v2 battle.

Idk man.... Yoda couldn't really hang with Palpatine. I don't think Obi Wan would have tipped the scales in their favor.

Seems like a pretty close fight to me.

Yoda is on his heels for most of the fight, and doesn't seem to be having as much fun as Sidious. Dark side/light side and all that aside, Emperor showed quite a bit more power in that battle.

Sidious was also having a lot of fun right before vader through him down the shaft.

Strat wrote:

Kaius wrote:

daft twat wrote:

Kaius wrote:Ppl on both sides are tossing around the fanboy term. It's become meaningless.

Agreed. Also, I'm not mad at people who enjoyed or loved TLJ. I'm jealous. I wish I was with you in the same way I wish I believed in god. It must be nice. That said, I think the people in this thread who are the film's biggest proponents have been boorish about it.

I've seen it once. I really enjoyed the movie. It wasn't perfect, but me and my 11-year-old daughter both had a blast. Initially, I liked where they took the story, and I was surprised to find so much attention on the (mis)handling of Luke Skywalker when I got online later that evening. Then I see even Mark Hamill though it was shit (in so many words). Now, he's just a guy, but I'm starting to understand the other perspective, and it has me wondering what could have been done better to bring more of the crowd to the light. Because I tend to think the ppl who liked the arc (and movie) would probably have liked it no matter which direction it went (to a certain standard of quality that is).

For the record....when i walked out of the studio i was perturbed and wasn't sure how I felt. I was not one bit excited about what I just saw. I had a huge fat "Hmm" on my face.

I can honestly say that once i dropped my expectations and my own desires for what i wanted the movie to be....I started to understand and love the actual story presented to me.

Would I have liked Luke pulling the X Wing out of the Ocean, not sucked island cow titty, joined the fight and destroyed everyone? Of course. I would still enjoy that.

But i would have enjoyed it on the same level that I enjoyed TFA. "Wow, that was fun, that was great, that was star wars".

If I would have gotten that again - Im not sure there would be any staying power in any of it.

I'm not really talking about expectations. I didn't have any, aside from it being a continuation of the saga. I don't get into all the speculation that most here do. I don't think the Anders' and daft twat's of the world are necessarily bummed due to unmet expectations; I think they're bummed because they don't like how Luke came out of the other side of ROTJ, on a fundamental level.

Kaius wrote:

Strat wrote:

Kaius wrote:

daft twat wrote:

Kaius wrote:Ppl on both sides are tossing around the fanboy term. It's become meaningless.

Agreed. Also, I'm not mad at people who enjoyed or loved TLJ. I'm jealous. I wish I was with you in the same way I wish I believed in god. It must be nice. That said, I think the people in this thread who are the film's biggest proponents have been boorish about it.

I've seen it once. I really enjoyed the movie. It wasn't perfect, but me and my 11-year-old daughter both had a blast. Initially, I liked where they took the story, and I was surprised to find so much attention on the (mis)handling of Luke Skywalker when I got online later that evening. Then I see even Mark Hamill though it was shit (in so many words). Now, he's just a guy, but I'm starting to understand the other perspective, and it has me wondering what could have been done better to bring more of the crowd to the light. Because I tend to think the ppl who liked the arc (and movie) would probably have liked it no matter which direction it went (to a certain standard of quality that is).

For the record....when i walked out of the studio i was perturbed and wasn't sure how I felt. I was not one bit excited about what I just saw. I had a huge fat "Hmm" on my face.

I can honestly say that once i dropped my expectations and my own desires for what i wanted the movie to be....I started to understand and love the actual story presented to me.

Would I have liked Luke pulling the X Wing out of the Ocean, not sucked island cow titty, joined the fight and destroyed everyone? Of course. I would still enjoy that.

But i would have enjoyed it on the same level that I enjoyed TFA. "Wow, that was fun, that was great, that was star wars".

If I would have gotten that again - Im not sure there would be any staying power in any of it.

I'm not really talking about expectations. I didn't have any, aside from it being a continuation of the saga. I don't get into all the speculation that most here do. I don't think the Anders' and daft twat's of the world are necessarily bummed due to unmet expectations; I think they're bummed because they don't like how Luke came out of the other side of ROTJ, on a fundamental level.

My comments aren't directed specifically at them. I dont pretend to know exactly how they feel . Im speaking to the general negative feedback.

Also, your last line, I am willing to learn how that is any different than or unrelated to one's own expectations and desires. Because A lot of what i hear is "Oh luke would never do that as seen by the OT!"

Or a variation on that

Strat wrote:

Kaius wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:

Kaius wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:Yoda and Obi-Wan probably could've taken on Vader and Palpatine. I'm sure they could've devised a plan to stage a 2v2 battle.

Idk man.... Yoda couldn't really hang with Palpatine. I don't think Obi Wan would have tipped the scales in their favor.

Seems like a pretty close fight to me.

Yoda is on his heels for most of the fight, and doesn't seem to be having as much fun as Sidious. Dark side/light side and all that aside, Emperor showed quite a bit more power in that battle.

Sidious was also having a lot of fun right before vader through him down the shaft.

yeah I don't think that has much bearing on this for multiple reasons, but Jedi get reckless in battle also.

Obi Wan was hiding out and protecting a potentially very powerful force user from being found by his very powerful evil father and HIS very powerful boss. This isn't a mystery. It's like, known facts and shit.

Kaius wrote:

Strat wrote:

Kaius wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:

Kaius wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:Yoda and Obi-Wan probably could've taken on Vader and Palpatine. I'm sure they could've devised a plan to stage a 2v2 battle.

Idk man.... Yoda couldn't really hang with Palpatine. I don't think Obi Wan would have tipped the scales in their favor.

Seems like a pretty close fight to me.

Yoda is on his heels for most of the fight, and doesn't seem to be having as much fun as Sidious. Dark side/light side and all that aside, Emperor showed quite a bit more power in that battle.

Sidious was also having a lot of fun right before vader through him down the shaft.

yeah I don't think that has much bearing on this for multiple reasons, but Jedi get reckless in battle also.

Obi Wan was hiding out and protecting a potentially very powerful force user from being found by his very powerful evil father and HIS very powerful boss. This isn't a mystery. It's like, known facts and shit.

Yes, i get that is fact. im not ignoring that. BUt like i stated before....I believe that Obi Wan and Yoda could take the remaining sith at that point before going into hiding. Obi Wan and Yoda VS Palpatine and a Vader that could barely walk.

If doing so, and actually defeating, then there is no need for Obi Wan to hide in a cave and watch over a powerful baby, and thus no need for a movie.

So it works, it fits. You can pick it apart the same way we are able to pick apart and judge Luke now.

Most story telling is flimsy and bullshit if you are a nerd enough to dive into it and pick it apart.

I think what Im trying to say is - and others have pointed out - Lukes story is not unrealistic or that shocking in the Star Wars Universe. But it is a reflection of all of our attachment to a character and hero we all grew up with. We all feel an unhealthy personal attachment to this story and specifically luke skywalker.

I totally understand if you didnt like the story. I do get it. I really do. Its not for everyone. But like others have argued - its not that far fetched our outside the realm of Star Wars or the very character that is Luke. This isn't raping your childhood or throwing star wars off the cliff.

Kaius wrote:

Strat wrote:

Kaius wrote:

daft twat wrote:

Kaius wrote:Ppl on both sides are tossing around the fanboy term. It's become meaningless.

Agreed. Also, I'm not mad at people who enjoyed or loved TLJ. I'm jealous. I wish I was with you in the same way I wish I believed in god. It must be nice. That said, I think the people in this thread who are the film's biggest proponents have been boorish about it.

I've seen it once. I really enjoyed the movie. It wasn't perfect, but me and my 11-year-old daughter both had a blast. Initially, I liked where they took the story, and I was surprised to find so much attention on the (mis)handling of Luke Skywalker when I got online later that evening. Then I see even Mark Hamill though it was shit (in so many words). Now, he's just a guy, but I'm starting to understand the other perspective, and it has me wondering what could have been done better to bring more of the crowd to the light. Because I tend to think the ppl who liked the arc (and movie) would probably have liked it no matter which direction it went (to a certain standard of quality that is).

For the record....when i walked out of the studio i was perturbed and wasn't sure how I felt. I was not one bit excited about what I just saw. I had a huge fat "Hmm" on my face.

I can honestly say that once i dropped my expectations and my own desires for what i wanted the movie to be....I started to understand and love the actual story presented to me.

Would I have liked Luke pulling the X Wing out of the Ocean, not sucked island cow titty, joined the fight and destroyed everyone? Of course. I would still enjoy that.

But i would have enjoyed it on the same level that I enjoyed TFA. "Wow, that was fun, that was great, that was star wars".

If I would have gotten that again - Im not sure there would be any staying power in any of it.

I'm not really talking about expectations. I didn't have any, aside from it being a continuation of the saga. I don't get into all the speculation that most here do. I don't think the Anders' and daft twat's of the world are necessarily bummed due to unmet expectations; I think they're bummed because they don't like how Luke came out of the other side of ROTJ, on a fundamental level.

This is it exactly. I had no Snoke or Rey theories. Where the story goes doesn't matter to me a fraction as much as the characters do. I don't like what Rian did to Luke. That is all.

strat good guy'd the crap out of this thread tonight

And I know strat is mad at me, but I had no problem with Luke in this movie. I had a problem with the overall story telling in the movie

I'm not going to keep quoting these walls of text.

At some point, as rational human beings with a mutual love for all things Star Wars, it would be helpful to acknowledge the massive number of disgruntled fans and the validity of their grievances in regards to the creative choices made in Ep. VIII and how it changed the entire saga on a fundamental level. It doesn't mean they own the truth anymore than you do for liking it. It's disingenuous,however, to treat them like they are watching it wrong. I mean, Mark hamill himself doesn't agree with the decisions made, even though they seem to have landed with at least half of the audience.