E.H. Ruddock wrote:And I know strat is mad at me, but I had no problem with Luke in this movie. I had a problem with the overall story telling in the movie
Lol. I love you!
Also, all of this is fun banter between a bunch of star wars fans (Except LV). This is episode 2 in a trilogy. This entire conversation may change by the time its wrapped up.
Could you imagine if the internet was around during the OT? Geezes. Seacrest out!
It's funny how the response of this film is mirroring the original release of ESB:
"The Empire Strikes Back received mixed reviews from critics upon its initial release. For example, Vincent Canby of The New York Times wrote a largely negative review of the film.[58] David Denby of New York magazine called the film "a Wagnerian pop movie—grandiose, thrilling, imperiously generous in scale, and also a bit ponderous".[59] Judith Martin of The Washington Post criticized the film's "middle-of-the-story" plot, which she claimed had no particular beginning or end.[60] However, this was a concept that Lucas had intended.[36]"
Rangi Guy wrote:So skating back to the train station after work today things went wrong.....now my skateboard is at the bottom of the harbour
Kaius wrote:I'm not going to keep quoting these walls of text.
At some point, as rational human beings with a mutual love for all things Star Wars, it would be helpful to acknowledge the massive number of disgruntled fans and the validity of their grievances in regards to the creative choices made in Ep. VIII and how it changed the entire saga on a fundamental level. It doesn't mean they own the truth anymore than you do for liking it. It's disingenuous,however, to treat them like they are watching it wrong. I mean, Mark hamill himself doesn't agree with the decisions made, even though they seem to have landed with at least half of the audience.
I hope I haven't expressed that people who dont like the movie are wrong or idiots. Not my intention at all. Challenging some perceptions of the film and story is only because i enjoy talking about star wars. I think some people are missing some facts about star wars in general and diluting them to fit their current distaste of the new trilogy. But i think most of us who enjoy this film have been pretty consistent in explaining why we do and we we dont feel this has raped our love for luke skywalker!
I really dont care that someone doesn't like this movie. i dont. But i will challenge this idea that the way Luke Skywalker was portrayed in this film is some sort of personal attack on the OT.
LoathedVermin72 wrote:Am I a SW fan? I legitimately don’t know anymore.
I dont think you give a shit?
Is that what you think?
Yes. i dont hink you give a shit if anyone considers you a star wars fan or not. You like what you like and thats all that matters. That's a good thing. Not a knock on you.
Do you care if i think you like star wars or not?
Do you care if i like transformers or not?
LoathedVermin72 wrote:Am I a SW fan? I legitimately don’t know anymore.
I dont think you give a shit?
Is that what you think?
Yes. i dont hink you give a shit if anyone considers you a star wars fan or not. You like what you like and thats all that matters. That's a good thing. Not a knock on you.
Do you care if i think you like star wars or not?
Do you care if i like transformers or not?
I was just trying to start a question chain but you ruined it
LoathedVermin72 wrote:Am I a SW fan? I legitimately don’t know anymore.
I dont think you give a shit?
Is that what you think?
Yes. i dont hink you give a shit if anyone considers you a star wars fan or not. You like what you like and thats all that matters. That's a good thing. Not a knock on you.
Do you care if i think you like star wars or not?
Do you care if i like transformers or not?
I was just trying to start a question chain but you ruined it
to an earlier point, im sure i would have still lived TLJ if luke was the sane old Luke. We wont know how much more or less but it would have been fine
but as far as narrative potential this direction is far more satisfying, and given JJ’s setup, had luke NOT changed it would have just been wish fulfillment.
And nothing that happens in this movie invalidates the OT. The OT happened. This is 30 years later and a response/reaction to new events. Strat’s pearl jam analogy is spot on
Kaius wrote:I'm not going to keep quoting these walls of text.
At some point, as rational human beings with a mutual love for all things Star Wars, it would be helpful to acknowledge the massive number of disgruntled fans and the validity of their grievances in regards to the creative choices made in Ep. VIII and how it changed the entire saga on a fundamental level. It doesn't mean they own the truth anymore than you do for liking it. It's disingenuous,however, to treat them like they are watching it wrong. I mean, Mark hamill himself doesn't agree with the decisions made, even though they seem to have landed with at least half of the audience.
This was a great post and I echo it’s sentiment and hope it’s been noticed I haven’t been arguing with anyone about the movie or ‘watching it wrong’.
I was shellshocked and angry my first viewing and somehow able to absorb that and see the truly wonderful new way Star Wars has been shaped in later viewings and simply hope others who are in that shellshocked state and have grievances are lucky enough to have the film come around for them. If not no worries. It’ll make for a better dialogue and exchange of ideas in the coming months.
Kaius wrote:Ppl on both sides are tossing around the fanboy term. It's become meaningless.
Agreed. Also, I'm not mad at people who enjoyed or loved TLJ. I'm jealous. I wish I was with you in the same way I wish I believed in god. It must be nice. That said, I think the people in this thread who are the film's biggest proponents have been boorish about it.
This is troublesome to me. I'm not sure if you're including me in this or not. But I want to apologise to if I'm come across as boorish. That was never my intent and I'd argue that I've been reasonable and thoughtful in my responses. But if it's not reading that easy, then I'm very sorry. I have no interest in telling people what you like. I have tried to provide alternate points of view and explanations as to why I did like things as a way of perhaps helping others see things differently and thereby enjoy it more, however. If that reads as boorish then that's probably on me.
stip wrote:its probably me. my pedantic side made an appearence in this thread in response to some frustrating posts. if im honest im sure it’ll be back
