Red Mosquito

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

Strat wrote:

warehouse wrote:

EJ wrote:

Tuolumne wrote: To connect to fans is not an artistic approach?

that sounds like the polar opposite of art.

dont artists make art with the intention of it causing a reaction?

Within themselves...

Any artist worth their salt wants their music heard. They want a reaction, no matter how divisive. I respect that some people dont dig the recent stuff, but I'd be really bummed if it was NOT getting some divisive reactions. To me it would be an artistic failure if it wasn't sparking any kind of reaction at all. That's sort of where I'm going at with my previous comments, even if I couldn't articulate them completely. They may not be reaching Joe Blow pop fan, but they are getting traction with a certain kind of music fan that likes PJ but at a certain distance. This is a better artistic life than just a bunch of completely satiated fans. The early years did that (as part of the grunge movement, which made all kinds of waves back in the day) and the middle period (No Code through Riot Act a huge contingent of fans hated, don't we remember this?). If it just neatly settled in without ruffling any feathers at all with 100% of the fans happy I think that's a lesser artistic result than a 50/50 split. I prefer the 50/50 split. Every artist wants to be heard. Anyone that says anything else is talking out of their ass.

Every PJ song since the year dot has been divisive. Your argument holds no water. Cold Concession and Let It Ride would've had a divisive response among fans. But they would've been great songs, not shit ones.

if they were great songs they probably wouldn't have been divisive

I'm pretty sure you're more intelligent than that, Stip.

I think Cold Confession is marvelous. I think Let it ride is an okay song with a good ending. Great is far from my mind. I think Cold Confession can stand tall amongst my very favorite songs of the last 10 years. Let It Ride will quickly become a mid tier 'i probably won't skip it if it comes on unless I'm near my destination and want something better.' song

there is obviously some sweet spot PJ can potentially hit that appeals to just about everyone. CC might be there. Let it Ride I'm not so sure. Which means the band may often have to make choices.

Also I'm basically doing my rote push back against heavy handed slamming of a decade worth of music that produced some of my very favorite songs and one of my favorite albums.

Its interesting to me to read the comments of the various characters here. I actually thought this was a board for fans of Pearl Jam, not necessarily critics of. Neither here nor there as it is the internet and this is often what message boards are all about, but I find it hard to fathom that there are so few true fans left on here. That's not to mean you have to like everything they put out. I certainly don't. But each album has enough on them that I see no reason to stop the support. I'm in the like Backspacer camp, so I guess it puts me in the minority around here an may also be why I don't share a lot of the critical opinion being bandied about. But wow. Kind of mystified at the whole thing.

I take nothing they put out seriously enough that it affects my being. I take each album as they come and pull out the pieces I enjoy and set aside the ones I don't. Every once in awhile, I give those songs another spin to see if I've changed my mind and once in awhile I have. If so..they go into my pile that I enjoy. Rinse/Repeat. I don't sit around for a nanosecond wondering why Eddie is forcing the band to play all these horrendous songs. Ha. Its silly to even write it let alone believe it. Any second on here trying to perceive what goes on within the privacy of the band is wasted.

Anyway. My two cents. I get the discussion and the dissection of all that is Pearl Jam, but I don't get the hostility.

Any current, active links for these? The nazi's have seemingly pulled them all.

sward wrote:Its interesting to me to read the comments of the various characters here. I actually thought this was a board for fans of Pearl Jam, not necessarily critics of. Neither here nor there as it is the internet and this is often what message boards are all about, but I find it hard to fathom that there are so few true fans left on here. That's not to mean you have to like everything they put out. I certainly don't. But each album has enough on them that I see no reason to stop the support. I'm in the like Backspacer camp, so I guess it puts me in the minority around here an may also be why I don't share a lot of the critical opinion being bandied about. But wow. Kind of mystified at the whole thing.

I take nothing they put out seriously enough that it affects my being. I take each album as they come and pull out the pieces I enjoy and set aside the ones I don't. Every once in awhile, I give those songs another spin to see if I've changed my mind and once in awhile I have. If so..they go into my pile that I enjoy. Rinse/Repeat. I don't sit around for a nanosecond wondering why Eddie is forcing the band to play all these horrendous songs. Ha. Its silly to even write it let alone believe it. Any second on here trying to perceive what goes on within the privacy of the band is wasted.

Anyway. My two cents. I get the discussion and the dissection of all that is Pearl Jam, but I don't get the hostility.

There is no hostility here and none of PJ's releases affect our being and/or livelihood whether we love or dislike what they are doing...

yadda yadda internet

--- wrote:

stip wrote:

--- wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:PJ's entire artistic value to me is about how it has taken on it's own life within it's fans.

Huh. I always derived PJ's artistic value from their art.

Different strokes, I guess.

Different strokes, but that's a legit position that Tuolumne is articulating. Michael Stipe, for instance, used to introduce Losing My Religion by saying 'this is your song--we just cover it'. It's focusing on the shared experience of the art, rather than the art in isolation.

I agree there's a distinction, but I don't think this is it.

Stipe's position is an ex-post one, in which the song takes on a new life after it was composed. I'm saying that incorporating expectations about what is not able to be known - the nature of the life a piece of art takes on after it's completed - ex-ante has consequences for the final composition, and they're not always positive.

that is true, but Accelerate is an album that was informed by the live experience of songs. You may be able to even say something similar about Vitalogy, which was fairly well road tested.

Just listened to both of these songs through headphones for the first time; I liked them to begin with, but this made them even more

theplatypus wrote:

stip wrote:if they were great songs they probably wouldn't have been divisive

Ah yes. Because as history has shown us, no great art is divisive.

look, within the fanbase there ARE songs that are seemingly universally loved. Alive, Black, State of Love and Trust, Rearview Mirror, Daughter, Go, Animal, last exit, Corduroy, Immortality, Given to Fly, Do the Evolution, In My Tree, Hail Hail, Insignificance, etc.

That's my point which is valid (I think) in the context of the discussion harmless and tolumne were having (if I understood it)

theplatypus wrote:

stip wrote:

Cleverman wrote:

EJ wrote:

harmless wrote:Maybe these songs will be on a second disc, along with LB, called Found Cats.

Which will mean we have one album worth listening to.

if all else fails, you can always fall back on merchandise.

That can't be real, can it? I am mostly a PJ apologist, but

they sold out, so 10c was right to make them.

There's a couple different ways to interpret this post, stip ol' pal

shit, there is. That took me a few rereads to notice

sward wrote:Its interesting to me to read the comments of the various characters here. I actually thought this was a board for fans of Pearl Jam, not necessarily critics of. Neither here nor there as it is the internet and this is often what message boards are all about, but I find it hard to fathom that there are so few true fans left on here. That's not to mean you have to like everything they put out. I certainly don't. But each album has enough on them that I see no reason to stop the support. I'm in the like Backspacer camp, so I guess it puts me in the minority around here an may also be why I don't share a lot of the critical opinion being bandied about. But wow. Kind of mystified at the whole thing.

I take nothing they put out seriously enough that it affects my being. I take each album as they come and pull out the pieces I enjoy and set aside the ones I don't. Every once in awhile, I give those songs another spin to see if I've changed my mind and once in awhile I have. If so..they go into my pile that I enjoy. Rinse/Repeat. I don't sit around for a nanosecond wondering why Eddie is forcing the band to play all these horrendous songs. Ha. Its silly to even write it let alone believe it. Any second on here trying to perceive what goes on within the privacy of the band is wasted.

Anyway. My two cents. I get the discussion and the dissection of all that is Pearl Jam, but I don't get the hostility.

Being a true fan doesn't mean sucking on every morsel the ban puts out and thinking its delicious. The actions of the band,ten club and the output of the band deserves criticism. I'm a fan of the band an those group of musicians. I have liked post RA output but have not lived much. Hearing the side projects and solo work shows me they can craft great music. What we've gotten from pearl jam has been a shell of what it could be.

stip wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

stip wrote:if they were great songs they probably wouldn't have been divisive

Ah yes. Because as history has shown us, no great art is divisive.

look, within the fanbase there ARE songs that are seemingly universally loved. Alive, Black, State of Love and Trust, Rearview Mirror, Daughter, Go, Animal, last exit, Corduroy, Immortality, Given to Fly, Do the Evolution, In My Tree, Hail Hail, Insignificance, etc.

That's my point which is valid (I think) in the context of the discussion harmless and tolumne were having (if I understood it)

In before 4 pages of "I don't like Daughter" posts.

stip wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

stip wrote:if they were great songs they probably wouldn't have been divisive

Ah yes. Because as history has shown us, no great art is divisive.

look, within the fanbase there ARE songs that are seemingly universally loved. Alive, Black, State of Love and Trust, Rearview Mirror, Daughter, Go, Animal, last exit, Corduroy, Immortality, Given to Fly, Do the Evolution, In My Tree, Hail Hail, Insignificance, etc.

That's my point which is valid (I think) in the context of the discussion harmless and tolumne were having (if I understood it)

Every song you've listed has its detractors.

I dont like Daugh-- oh.

sward wrote:Its interesting to me to read the comments of the various characters here. I actually thought this was a board for fans of Pearl Jam, not necessarily critics of. Neither here nor there as it is the internet and this is often what message boards are all about, but I find it hard to fathom that there are so few true fans left on here. That's not to mean you have to like everything they put out. I certainly don't. But each album has enough on them that I see no reason to stop the support. I'm in the like Backspacer camp, so I guess it puts me in the minority around here an may also be why I don't share a lot of the critical opinion being bandied about. But wow. Kind of mystified at the whole thing.

I take nothing they put out seriously enough that it affects my being. I take each album as they come and pull out the pieces I enjoy and set aside the ones I don't. Every once in awhile, I give those songs another spin to see if I've changed my mind and once in awhile I have. If so..they go into my pile that I enjoy. Rinse/Repeat. I don't sit around for a nanosecond wondering why Eddie is forcing the band to play all these horrendous songs. Ha. Its silly to even write it let alone believe it. Any second on here trying to perceive what goes on within the privacy of the band is wasted.

Anyway. My two cents. I get the discussion and the dissection of all that is Pearl Jam, but I don't get the hostility.

"true fans"

Simple Torture wrote:Just listened to both of these songs through headphones for the first time; I liked them to begin with, but this made them even more

and we all agree that i got shit sucks, so we can agree on some things... few as they are.

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

stip wrote:if they were great songs they probably wouldn't have been divisive

Ah yes. Because as history has shown us, no great art is divisive.

look, within the fanbase there ARE songs that are seemingly universally loved. Alive, Black, State of Love and Trust, Rearview Mirror, Daughter, Go, Animal, last exit, Corduroy, Immortality, Given to Fly, Do the Evolution, In My Tree, Hail Hail, Insignificance, etc.

That's my point which is valid (I think) in the context of the discussion harmless and tolumne were having (if I understood it)

Every song you've listed has its detractors.

sure, but they are very few and far between. These are songs that 90+% of the fanbase (if we can gauge from things like SOTM polls) like.

Strat wrote:

sward wrote:Its interesting to me to read the comments of the various characters here. I actually thought this was a board for fans of Pearl Jam, not necessarily critics of. Neither here nor there as it is the internet and this is often what message boards are all about, but I find it hard to fathom that there are so few true fans left on here. That's not to mean you have to like everything they put out. I certainly don't. But each album has enough on them that I see no reason to stop the support. I'm in the like Backspacer camp, so I guess it puts me in the minority around here an may also be why I don't share a lot of the critical opinion being bandied about. But wow. Kind of mystified at the whole thing.

I take nothing they put out seriously enough that it affects my being. I take each album as they come and pull out the pieces I enjoy and set aside the ones I don't. Every once in awhile, I give those songs another spin to see if I've changed my mind and once in awhile I have. If so..they go into my pile that I enjoy. Rinse/Repeat. I don't sit around for a nanosecond wondering why Eddie is forcing the band to play all these horrendous songs. Ha. Its silly to even write it let alone believe it. Any second on here trying to perceive what goes on within the privacy of the band is wasted.

Anyway. My two cents. I get the discussion and the dissection of all that is Pearl Jam, but I don't get the hostility.

There is no hostility here and none of PJ's releases affect our being and/or livelihood whether we love or dislike what they are doing...

yadda yadda internet

Sward, you have to take them pretty seriously to spend this much time defending their mediocrity to a forum.

harmless wrote:

Strat wrote:

sward wrote:Its interesting to me to read the comments of the various characters here. I actually thought this was a board for fans of Pearl Jam, not necessarily critics of. Neither here nor there as it is the internet and this is often what message boards are all about, but I find it hard to fathom that there are so few true fans left on here. That's not to mean you have to like everything they put out. I certainly don't. But each album has enough on them that I see no reason to stop the support. I'm in the like Backspacer camp, so I guess it puts me in the minority around here an may also be why I don't share a lot of the critical opinion being bandied about. But wow. Kind of mystified at the whole thing.

I take nothing they put out seriously enough that it affects my being. I take each album as they come and pull out the pieces I enjoy and set aside the ones I don't. Every once in awhile, I give those songs another spin to see if I've changed my mind and once in awhile I have. If so..they go into my pile that I enjoy. Rinse/Repeat. I don't sit around for a nanosecond wondering why Eddie is forcing the band to play all these horrendous songs. Ha. Its silly to even write it let alone believe it. Any second on here trying to perceive what goes on within the privacy of the band is wasted.

Anyway. My two cents. I get the discussion and the dissection of all that is Pearl Jam, but I don't get the hostility.

There is no hostility here and none of PJ's releases affect our being and/or livelihood whether we love or dislike what they are doing...

yadda yadda internet

Sward, you have to take them pretty seriously to spend this much time defending their mediocrity to a forum.

I have no idea if this is an ironic post or not.

theplatypus wrote:Guys, I was under the impression the song's name was Cold Concession. I like that title a lot better. Where did we get "Confession"? From that Italian site? They don't even speak English.

Cold Concession was what was listed in the session rumors that we have. The leaked track had no information, and the lyric in the song says cold confession.

I like concession more, too.

HEY GUYS THIS THREAD ISNT POSITIVE ENOUGH.