Red Mosquito

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

stip wrote:

Mecca wrote:

stip wrote:

Mecca wrote:

stip wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:What's confounding about it? She's a walking, talking Deus Ex Machina.

it's a structural problem either way: Either Rey is an invincible Mary Sue or Ren is an incompetent weakling, but either way there is no drama in that scene because there is not much danger to the protagonist. But it was funny watching Finn get his ass kicked yet again. That poor dude can't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

That's a nonsense critique in the post prequel world. The OT really restricted what Jedi could do (which I preferred). But after the prequels where major character after major character could basically do everything all the powerful Jedi are going to have a similar skill set. Rey does nothing that Obi-Wan or Anakin didn't do, and more (really she's not that much different than Luke, a crazy good pilot with force powers who could also talk to droids. I guess she was a better mechanic). Yes, she's more powerful than Han Solo, but that's no longer a benchmark for Jedi.

She's also no different than half the characters populating super hero movies, other than her boobs.


And as established, Ren was half dead when they fought, and conflicted about what he had done (this plays out nicely in the 'you need a teacher' exchange during their duel, as well as other places), which limits a Jedi's ability to use the force.


There are some plot problems in Force Awakens, but this really isn't one of them.

It is a problem.

No, it isn't. Or, if it is, your problem is with the way what it means to be a jedi has been altered in the last twenty five years.


I also assume both you and Burt are quick to level this critique at, say, Tony Stark or Batman.

The difference between OT Jedi and Prequel Jedi is that prequel Jedi were all trained from a young age.

And they all do a lot more than Rey does. The only active force power she uses beyond intuition is the jedi mind trick.

Which I would argue she should've failed at.

This is all moot if we find out Luke trained her at least a little bit as a child

It doesn't matter who trained her. I don't care if she is secretly Smaug, the invincible superdragon who could defeat Vader no problem: It's a boring story if she isn't tested.

Which obviously explains why everyone was so bored watching her.

Jesus, this argument... I can't... seriously, guys. Confounding.

stip wrote:When Disney made the decision to stick with the prequels as cannon (and the clone wars cartoons, and rebels, and all the crap that's not part of the OT) they set the ground rules for how that world (and the world building that makes it up) is going to work. The OT presentation of what Jedi can do is no longer controlling. I agree that I preferred that more under powered version, but it's not bad writing on the part of Lawrence Kasden. That's just the way things are now. It's not like that's something you can just conveniently talk around or not bring up again (like midichlorians)

BurtReynolds wrote:I bet Finn could beat up Smaug. That's the one thing in the universe he could defeat.

stip wrote:Can we all just agree that Smaug could take Rey and Ren at the same time?

durdencommatyler wrote:

stip wrote:When Disney made the decision to stick with the prequels as cannon (and the clone wars cartoons, and rebels, and all the crap that's not part of the OT) they set the ground rules for how that world (and the world building that makes it up) is going to work. The OT presentation of what Jedi can do is no longer controlling. I agree that I preferred that more under powered version, but it's not bad writing on the part of Lawrence Kasden. That's just the way things are now. It's not like that's something you can just conveniently talk around or not bring up again (like midichlorians)

Careful, Stip. Don't bring Larry into this. Everyone knows that every flaw this movie has is directly JJ's fault and only JJ's fault.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:smaug was defeated by a bunch of fucking midgets and some dude with a big sharp stick

BurtReynolds wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

stip wrote:

Mecca wrote:

stip wrote:

Mecca wrote:

stip wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:What's confounding about it? She's a walking, talking Deus Ex Machina.

it's a structural problem either way: Either Rey is an invincible Mary Sue or Ren is an incompetent weakling, but either way there is no drama in that scene because there is not much danger to the protagonist. But it was funny watching Finn get his ass kicked yet again. That poor dude can't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

That's a nonsense critique in the post prequel world. The OT really restricted what Jedi could do (which I preferred). But after the prequels where major character after major character could basically do everything all the powerful Jedi are going to have a similar skill set. Rey does nothing that Obi-Wan or Anakin didn't do, and more (really she's not that much different than Luke, a crazy good pilot with force powers who could also talk to droids. I guess she was a better mechanic). Yes, she's more powerful than Han Solo, but that's no longer a benchmark for Jedi.

She's also no different than half the characters populating super hero movies, other than her boobs.


And as established, Ren was half dead when they fought, and conflicted about what he had done (this plays out nicely in the 'you need a teacher' exchange during their duel, as well as other places), which limits a Jedi's ability to use the force.


There are some plot problems in Force Awakens, but this really isn't one of them.

It is a problem.

No, it isn't. Or, if it is, your problem is with the way what it means to be a jedi has been altered in the last twenty five years.


I also assume both you and Burt are quick to level this critique at, say, Tony Stark or Batman.

The difference between OT Jedi and Prequel Jedi is that prequel Jedi were all trained from a young age.

And they all do a lot more than Rey does. The only active force power she uses beyond intuition is the jedi mind trick.

Which I would argue she should've failed at.

This is all moot if we find out Luke trained her at least a little bit as a child

It doesn't matter who trained her. I don't care if she is secretly Smaug, the invincible superdragon who could defeat Vader no problem: It's a boring story if she isn't tested.

Which obviously explains why everyone was so bored watching her.

Jesus, this argument... I can't... seriously, guys. Confounding.

You are literally worse than Loathed Vermin.

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:
It doesn't matter who trained her. I don't care if she is secretly Smaug, the invincible superdragon who could defeat Vader no problem: It's a boring story if she isn't tested.

Which obviously explains why everyone was so bored watching her.

Jesus, this argument... I can't... seriously, guys. Confounding.

You are literally worse than Loathed Vermin.

sigh

BurtReynolds wrote:JJ is the Lost guy, right? I promise you he has no answers to any of these hanging plot threads, which is why he signed on for one movie. Let the other directors clean up the mess.

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:JJ is the Lost guy, right? I promise you he has no answers to any of these hanging plot threads, which is why he signed on for one movie. Let the other directors clean up the mess.

JJ's involvement with LOST ended with the Pilot.

BurtReynolds wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:
It doesn't matter who trained her. I don't care if she is secretly Smaug, the invincible superdragon who could defeat Vader no problem: It's a boring story if she isn't tested.

Which obviously explains why everyone was so bored watching her.

Jesus, this argument... I can't... seriously, guys. Confounding.

You are literally worse than Loathed Vermin.

sigh

I may have crossed a line there. Sorry not sorry.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:JJ is the Lost guy, right? I promise you he has no answers to any of these hanging plot threads, which is why he signed on for one movie. Let the other directors clean up the mess.

JJ's involvement with LOST ended with the Pilot.

haha

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:JJ is the Lost guy, right? I promise you he has no answers to any of these hanging plot threads, which is why he signed on for one movie. Let the other directors clean up the mess.

JJ's involvement with LOST ended with the Pilot.

haha

What? Do I have something in my teeth?

durdencommatyler wrote:Can we talk about how fucking GREAT episode 8 is gonna be?

BurtReynolds wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Can we talk about how fucking GREAT episode 8 is gonna be?

The Death Star is gonna be HUGE in that one.