Red Mosquito

Green Habit wrote:Richard Sherman completely wiped out the kicker on an end of half FG attempt. He was called for offsides, but he also should have been called for a late hit. However, the kicker, who took a while to get up, was deemed an "injured player", and due to the lack of the missed personal foul on Sherman, had to sit out a play. Thankfully, the Bills had enough time to spike the ball to get the kicker back on...but then due to some odd official incompetence, the umpire stood over the ball until there were five seconds on the game clock, and the Bills get called for delay of game. The kicker then of course misses it. Since the Bills lost by six, had they had that FG they could have instead kicked a chip shot FG at the end of regulation to send it into overtime.

Question about the late hit non-call: Because Sherman was off sides it's a "free play" right? So whatever happens after that can't also be enforced, is that correct?

I'm remembering earlier this year in the Chiefs/Texans game. Texans jump early. Free play for the Chiefs. Alex lobs up a long ball. The ball is intercepted (but this doesn't matter because it's a free play; Chiefs accept the offsides call and that negates the interception) then the defender gets called for taunting the WR. However, that penalty must be declined because the offsides penalty negated the play. So if the Bills accepted the offsides penalty on Sherman, they can't also take a late hit penalty, right?

Of course, this doesn't matter because, to my knowledge, Sherman wasn't even flagged at all. Which is complete bullshit. I'm just trying to understand the rules.

Also, this seems like a dangerous precedent to set. They're going to have to amend the rule this off season because now that the "loophole" has been exposed, what's to stop teams from taking out the kicker at the end of the half/game and doing this same thing?

Super shitty.

Green Habit wrote:

Orpheus wrote:

Coach wrote:I feel like every year, the Cowboys are among the most talked about teams, yet, they never deliver. I understand the popularity of being 'America's Team,' but still....they haven't won a super bowl since 1995.

I found this post a little deflating.

Fans of teams that have waited longer (including never) for a Super Bowl can probably think of even more deflating posts.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Green Habit wrote:Richard Sherman completely wiped out the kicker on an end of half FG attempt. He was called for offsides, but he also should have been called for a late hit. However, the kicker, who took a while to get up, was deemed an "injured player", and due to the lack of the missed personal foul on Sherman, had to sit out a play. Thankfully, the Bills had enough time to spike the ball to get the kicker back on...but then due to some odd official incompetence, the umpire stood over the ball until there were five seconds on the game clock, and the Bills get called for delay of game. The kicker then of course misses it. Since the Bills lost by six, had they had that FG they could have instead kicked a chip shot FG at the end of regulation to send it into overtime.

Question about the late hit non-call: Because Sherman was off sides it's a "free play" right? So whatever happens after that can't also be enforced, is that correct?

I'm remembering earlier this year in the Chiefs/Texans game. Texans jump early. Free play for the Chiefs. Alex lobs up a long ball. The ball is intercepted (but this doesn't matter because it's a free play; Chiefs accept the offsides call and that negates the interception) then the defender gets called for taunting the WR. However, that penalty must be declined because the offsides penalty negated the play. So if the Bills accepted the offsides penalty on Sherman, they can't also take a late hit penalty, right?

Of course, this doesn't matter because, to my knowledge, Sherman wasn't even flagged at all. Which is complete bullshit. I'm just trying to understand the rules.

Also, this seems like a dangerous precedent to set. They're going to have to amend the rule this off season because now that the "loophole" has been exposed, what's to stop teams from taking out the kicker at the end of the half/game and doing this same thing?

Super shitty.

hypothetically, why would the bills accept the offsides when the roughing the kicker is a better penalty for them?

durdencommatyler wrote:

Green Habit wrote:Richard Sherman completely wiped out the kicker on an end of half FG attempt. He was called for offsides, but he also should have been called for a late hit. However, the kicker, who took a while to get up, was deemed an "injured player", and due to the lack of the missed personal foul on Sherman, had to sit out a play. Thankfully, the Bills had enough time to spike the ball to get the kicker back on...but then due to some odd official incompetence, the umpire stood over the ball until there were five seconds on the game clock, and the Bills get called for delay of game. The kicker then of course misses it. Since the Bills lost by six, had they had that FG they could have instead kicked a chip shot FG at the end of regulation to send it into overtime.

Question about the late hit non-call: Because Sherman was off sides it's a "free play" right? So whatever happens after that can't also be enforced, is that correct?

I believe they called him unabated to the kicker, which is supposed to be whistled dead and not be a free play for exactly the reason as it played out; it's a dead-ball foul. But the whistle did not blow before Sherman hit him, as far as I can tell: http://video.nfl.com/films/vodzilla/372 ... _3200k.mp4

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Green Habit wrote:Richard Sherman completely wiped out the kicker on an end of half FG attempt. He was called for offsides, but he also should have been called for a late hit. However, the kicker, who took a while to get up, was deemed an "injured player", and due to the lack of the missed personal foul on Sherman, had to sit out a play. Thankfully, the Bills had enough time to spike the ball to get the kicker back on...but then due to some odd official incompetence, the umpire stood over the ball until there were five seconds on the game clock, and the Bills get called for delay of game. The kicker then of course misses it. Since the Bills lost by six, had they had that FG they could have instead kicked a chip shot FG at the end of regulation to send it into overtime.

Question about the late hit non-call: Because Sherman was off sides it's a "free play" right? So whatever happens after that can't also be enforced, is that correct?

I'm remembering earlier this year in the Chiefs/Texans game. Texans jump early. Free play for the Chiefs. Alex lobs up a long ball. The ball is intercepted (but this doesn't matter because it's a free play; Chiefs accept the offsides call and that negates the interception) then the defender gets called for taunting the WR. However, that penalty must be declined because the offsides penalty negated the play. So if the Bills accepted the offsides penalty on Sherman, they can't also take a late hit penalty, right?

Of course, this doesn't matter because, to my knowledge, Sherman wasn't even flagged at all. Which is complete bullshit. I'm just trying to understand the rules.

Also, this seems like a dangerous precedent to set. They're going to have to amend the rule this off season because now that the "loophole" has been exposed, what's to stop teams from taking out the kicker at the end of the half/game and doing this same thing?

Super shitty.

hypothetically, why would the bills accept the offsides when the roughing the kicker is a better penalty for them?

Exactly. In this case I think they WOULD have taken the roughing call. But the call never happened. That's why it's so fucking stupid. A flag wasn't through at all. Total bullshit.

Simple Torture wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Green Habit wrote:Richard Sherman completely wiped out the kicker on an end of half FG attempt. He was called for offsides, but he also should have been called for a late hit. However, the kicker, who took a while to get up, was deemed an "injured player", and due to the lack of the missed personal foul on Sherman, had to sit out a play. Thankfully, the Bills had enough time to spike the ball to get the kicker back on...but then due to some odd official incompetence, the umpire stood over the ball until there were five seconds on the game clock, and the Bills get called for delay of game. The kicker then of course misses it. Since the Bills lost by six, had they had that FG they could have instead kicked a chip shot FG at the end of regulation to send it into overtime.

Question about the late hit non-call: Because Sherman was off sides it's a "free play" right? So whatever happens after that can't also be enforced, is that correct?

I believe they called him unabated to the kicker, which is supposed to be whistled dead and not be a free play for exactly the reason as it played out; it's a dead-ball foul. But the whistle did not blow before Sherman hit him, as far as I can tell: http://video.nfl.com/films/vodzilla/372 ... _3200k.mp4

Oh wow. Yeah. Bills got so fucked.

Right, I forgot to mention that they called the offsides unabated, which blows the play dead. But as you said, they still have to throw the flag for unnecessary roughness on a late hit, otherwise players have a legal way to wipe out the kicker. I could easily see Aqib Talib attempt this, he plays the same role Sherman does for the Broncos on FG block teams.

Green Habit wrote:Right, I forgot to mention that they called the offsides unabated, which blows the play dead. But as you said, they still have to throw the flag for unnecessary roughness on a late hit, otherwise players have a legal way to wipe out the kicker. I could easily see Aqib Talib attempt this, he plays the same role Sherman does for the Broncos on FG block teams.

but the rules allow for that late hit flag to be thrown even on a play blown dead, right? if so then this isn't so much a loophole as joey mentioned as it is just a blatant missed call

League Referees completely screwing up a call (several) that leads to the Seahawks winning a game?

It's routine at this point.

Bring back the replacements.

Maybe it's really time to employ full time zebras.

durdencommatyler wrote:Maybe it's really time to employ full time zebras.

That time was about 20 years ago, and they need a training program that gets people into the league faster and they need a fully staffed man in the booth.

When you're paying the exec 50+ million a year it's a little difficult to gripe about benefits for such a significant element of the game.

Green Habit wrote:Right, I forgot to mention that they called the offsides unabated, which blows the play dead. But as you said, they still have to throw the flag for unnecessary roughness on a late hit, otherwise players have a legal way to wipe out the kicker. I could easily see Aqib Talib attempt this, he plays the same role Sherman does for the Broncos on FG block teams.

I'm sympathetic to both Sherman and the Bills here: the whistles didn't blow until after he got to the kicker, so he was playing to the whistle, which is what players are taught to do. But the whistles were obviously late, so the Bills have a grievance.

Electromatic wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Maybe it's really time to employ full time zebras.

That time was about 20 years ago, and they need a training program that gets people into the league faster and they need a fully staffed man in the booth.

When you're paying the exec 50+ million a year it's a little difficult to gripe about benefits for such a significant element of the game.

aw huh

The saddest part about this whole thing is that I've been tricked into watching and then re-watching highlights from a Bills game.

Simple Torture wrote:The saddest part about this whole thing is that I've been tricked into watching and then re-watching highlights from a Bills game.

Simple Torture wrote:The saddest part about this whole thing is that I've been tricked into watching and then re-watching highlights from a Bills game.

I'm still convinced that the worst "highlights" I've ever seen came from a 6-3 Bills/Browns game.

Green Habit wrote:

Orpheus wrote:

Coach wrote:I feel like every year, the Cowboys are among the most talked about teams, yet, they never deliver. I understand the popularity of being 'America's Team,' but still....they haven't won a super bowl since 1995.

I found this post a little deflating.

Fans of teams that have waited longer (including never) for a Super Bowl can probably think of even more deflating posts.

Can't deflate an empty balloon, GH

Simple Torture wrote:The saddest part about this whole thing is that I've been tricked into watching and then re-watching highlights from a Bills game.

Green Habit wrote:Fans of teams that have waited longer (including never) for a Super Bowl can probably think of even more deflating posts.

Green Habit wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:The saddest part about this whole thing is that I've been tricked into watching and then re-watching highlights from a Bills game.

I'm still convinced that the worst "highlights" I've ever seen came from a 6-3 Bills/Browns game.

Green Habit wrote:Fans of teams that have waited longer (including never) for a Super Bowl can probably think of even more deflating posts.

Seahawks fan here:

Unabated, whistle should have blown before Sherman got to the kicker. Ref's fault. Sherman dove at the ball, not the kicker's knee.