Red Mosquito

There are a lot of great points being made out there about Rose being sidelined.

But there are also a lot of takes (I'm finding now as I'm digging) that are shallow and based literally on nothing more than internet conversation/takes.

If the internet didn't exist and we didn't know there was a huge awful misogynistic racist troll backlash, I don't think so many people would interpret her role as "retcon" or a "response." People see what they want to see.

"Your focus determines your reality" has become more prevalent and meaningful to Star Wars than "certain point of view."

Again, this does not mean that there aren't valid criticism about Rose. Hell, I have my own criticisms about her character (whether valid or not).

Monkey_Driven wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Reading/watching reviews of the movie it's amazing how many people talk about the pace of this thing as a negative. It probably says too much about me but I thought the pace worked from the first viewing. And it was only strengthened by the second. I think this movie is really well paced.

It was a combination of the pace and the amount of exposition that was dizzying.

I hear you. I think it's interesting that I didn't feel that. I'm a "slow burn" kinda guy and I thought TLJ was SUPER fast the first time I saw it. So it's interesting to me --- again, this all says more about me than others --- that it didn't bother me, even on fist viewing.

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:How stupid is Palpatine in this movie? Why is he so trusting? lol he's terrible at this.

Oh yeah it's because the filmmakers had to remake Return of the Jedi again.

What about this is a ROTJ retread? Many people have said this and I'm curious what they mean by it. I'm not going to argue or fight or attack you (or anyone else) I'm just really curious. What do you mean when you say that?

You really don’t see it?

wease wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:How stupid is Palpatine in this movie? Why is he so trusting? lol he's terrible at this.

Oh yeah it's because the filmmakers had to remake Return of the Jedi again.

What about this is a ROTJ retread? Many people have said this and I'm curious what they mean by it. I'm not going to argue or fight or attack you (or anyone else) I'm just really curious. What do you mean when you say that?

You really don’t see it?

I don't, no. But that kind of thing is a weakness for me. Mostly because the whole "retread" argument isn't interesting to me at all. So it's difficult for me to identify. For example, Benjamin Button is Forrest Gump. Or TFA is ANH.

i'm putting the top gun trailer in the top 3 moments of my TROS experience

spike wrote:i'm putting the top gun trailer in the top 3 moments of my TROS experience

What are the other 2?

durdencommatyler wrote:

spike wrote:i'm putting the top gun trailer in the top 3 moments of my TROS experience

What are the other 2?

Better be the Tenet prologue.

Ensign9 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

spike wrote:i'm putting the top gun trailer in the top 3 moments of my TROS experience

What are the other 2?

Better be the Tenet prologue.

I didn't see that. Or the Top Gun trailer for that matter.

durdencommatyler wrote:

spike wrote:i'm putting the top gun trailer in the top 3 moments of my TROS experience

What are the other 2?

luke raising the x wing out of the water and a tie between han solo and the recliner seating

spike wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

spike wrote:i'm putting the top gun trailer in the top 3 moments of my TROS experience

What are the other 2?

luke raising the x wing out of the water and a tie between han solo and the recliner seating

They never explained how Maz got Anakin/Lukes lightsaber did they?

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:They never explained how Maz got Anakin/Lukes lightsaber did they?

In TFA? No.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:They never explained how Maz got Anakin/Lukes lightsaber did they?

In TFA? No.

I kind of assumed it was an important part of the story, but i had forgotten about it, so i guess that means it wasnt lol. I had just come across another discussion that mentioned being upset that it wasn't explained

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:They never explained how Maz got Anakin/Lukes lightsaber did they?

In TFA? No.

I kind of assumed it was an important part of the story, but i had forgotten about it, so i guess that means it wasnt lol. I had just come across another discussion that mentioned being upset that it wasn't explained

It's not something I ever thought would be explained in the films so it doesn't bother me. Like you, I hadn't thought about it until you brought it up.

durdencommatyler wrote:

wease wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:How stupid is Palpatine in this movie? Why is he so trusting? lol he's terrible at this.

Oh yeah it's because the filmmakers had to remake Return of the Jedi again.

What about this is a ROTJ retread? Many people have said this and I'm curious what they mean by it. I'm not going to argue or fight or attack you (or anyone else) I'm just really curious. What do you mean when you say that?

You really don’t see it?

I don't, no. But that kind of thing is a weakness for me. Mostly because the whole "retread" argument isn't interesting to me at all. So it's difficult for me to identify. For example, Benjamin Button is Forrest Gump. Or TFA is ANH.

I think the main aspect of it is the Emperor's return and role in this film. I can only speak for me, but right when he reappeared it was very clear where this movie was going; Kylo Ren was going to eventually be redeemed and help Rey destroy the Emperor, losing his life in the process. I had an inkling that's where it was going because you plug in Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker for Kylo Ren and Rey, and that is the arc that propels Return of the Jedi, particularly in its conclusion.

Obviously, I'm doing a broad comparison here, and there are aspects to the plot where the films differ significantly. But it is a bit of a drag for the broad strokes of the film to be telegraphed from its beginning, which I felt they were. I guess my main takeaway is I don't really understand why Palpatine had to be in this; I feel like they could have crafted a more compelling story from what they had without needing to return to the main enemy of the last part of the original trilogy (and this is a separate argument entirely from whether Rey being a Palpatine or truly 'from nowhere' is a stronger dramatic choice).

I hear you. Again, that kind of thing isn't really compelling to me. Not that your points aren't valid, they are. But a series that's based on mythology & built on tropes is going to predictable. It's how the themes & character arcs are executed that matter to me personally.

I also approach these things from what they are rather than what they aren't or what they should/could have been. If that makes sense.

It does make sense, and I agree that trying to talk about something like Star Wars and assuming it should have to avoid all tropes and established arcs is foolhardy. However, when adhering to those tropes causes you to miss the most potent dramatic material entirely is when I'd start to question it. Introducing Palpatine into the picture is what causes much of the narrative convulsions the movie has to go through. I think Rey and Kylo, and the relationship they've had through the course of the three films, is far, far more interesting than the Emperor as a character; why not center the movie to that?

It almost feels like that was what this movie wanted to do, as well; the film seemed at its best when focused on the relationship between those two characters. It just feels like a desire to adhere to arcs established in the original trilogy shackle it unnecessarily, IMO. Particularly with the relationship between the two leads (which has been probably one of the most uniformly praised things about this new trilogy), it's not like they were lacking dramatic firepower. Granted, this is going more into a question of 'what could have been' rather than 'what is.' I would just be curious to know why they made the choices they made.

Great post, I agree with you.