Red Mosquito

15showsandcounting wrote:

greendisease wrote:

RockPusher wrote:Open up the "Your opinion is wrong" floodgates!

Why? Vs. and Riot Act are still great albums but Vitalogy easily tops them, everyone has their different tastes but surely the majority thinks that.

Lol. No. Not at all. Riot Act is fine, but nothing great. No one who was around for Ten and Vs can possibly think this. Hell, even if you arrived at No Code or Yield this thought is absurd.

I hate this sort of gatekeeping in fandom. "Only us diehards who have been around since the beginning can objectively rank albums". When in reality, that group is probably the least qualified to do so.

yep

I'm one of those "diehards" and I think Riot Act is the pinnacle, so

Monkey_Driven wrote:

15showsandcounting wrote:

greendisease wrote:

RockPusher wrote:Open up the "Your opinion is wrong" floodgates!

Why? Vs. and Riot Act are still great albums but Vitalogy easily tops them, everyone has their different tastes but surely the majority thinks that.

Lol. No. Not at all. Riot Act is fine, but nothing great. No one who was around for Ten and Vs can possibly think this. Hell, even if you arrived at No Code or Yield this thought is absurd.

I hate this sort of gatekeeping in fandom. "Only us diehards who have been around since the beginning can objectively rank albums". When in reality, that group is probably the least qualified to do so.

Sorry you see it that way. And I'm pretty sure living through them does count for something, other than being old.

15showsandcounting wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

15showsandcounting wrote:

greendisease wrote:

RockPusher wrote:Open up the "Your opinion is wrong" floodgates!

Why? Vs. and Riot Act are still great albums but Vitalogy easily tops them, everyone has their different tastes but surely the majority thinks that.

Lol. No. Not at all. Riot Act is fine, but nothing great. No one who was around for Ten and Vs can possibly think this. Hell, even if you arrived at No Code or Yield this thought is absurd.

I hate this sort of gatekeeping in fandom. "Only us diehards who have been around since the beginning can objectively rank albums". When in reality, that group is probably the least qualified to do so.

Sorry you see it that way. And I'm pretty sure living through them does count for something, other than being old.

A better 10c number?

I think someone who hasn't lived through it all is better suited to give an objective opinion about the albums. Someone who is able to look at the entire catalogue with fresh eyes from a macro perspective, without having lived through the ups and downs of new album release mania. Someone like Cass, for example.

regardless, the idea that someone who has "lived through it" is far more likely to arrive at <whatever albums> as their favourite is ridiculous

Farmer John wrote:I think someone who hasn't lived through it all is better suited to give an objective opinion about the albums. Someone who is able to look at the entire catalogue with fresh eyes from a macro perspective, without having lived through the ups and downs of new album release mania. Someone like Cass, for example.

But everyone continues to live under the false pretense that any one list or opinion is correct, and others are incorrect. I remember hearing Vitalogy thinking they fired Ed. Who the fuck is this guy on Last Exit? Is that Stone? I was 14. My objective opinion is impossible because that's an exemplary memory of the first time I heard the record. It doesn't mean I can't hold that record in high regard though. But it is also simultaneously why I am not afraid to say "I kinda don't like Vitalogy."

I agree with both of you. I just really wanted to post about Cass.

We can at least all agree that stip is wrong for loving Backspacer

Just my tuppence worth but as someone who bought Ten on the day it came out, so has been there from Year Dot... i was tremendously disappointed by Vitalogy when it came out. It has hugely grown on me but isn't top 4 PJ. For those in from Ten it was certainly a diversion. And the same for No Code.

Monkey_Driven wrote:

15showsandcounting wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

15showsandcounting wrote:

greendisease wrote:

RockPusher wrote:Open up the "Your opinion is wrong" floodgates!

Why? Vs. and Riot Act are still great albums but Vitalogy easily tops them, everyone has their different tastes but surely the majority thinks that.

Lol. No. Not at all. Riot Act is fine, but nothing great. No one who was around for Ten and Vs can possibly think this. Hell, even if you arrived at No Code or Yield this thought is absurd.

I hate this sort of gatekeeping in fandom. "Only us diehards who have been around since the beginning can objectively rank albums". When in reality, that group is probably the least qualified to do so.

Sorry you see it that way. And I'm pretty sure living through them does count for something, other than being old.

A better 10c number?

Well played.

However, I gave up that racket years ago. Now I'm just another sucker on the secondary market overpaying.

Ms Harmless wrote:regardless, the idea that someone who has "lived through it" is far more likely to arrive at <whatever albums> as their favourite is ridiculous

So, you don't think the culture of the early 90's had a different effect on an album than say when Gigaton was released, and no one other than some of us message board nerds gives a flying F about PJ?

15showsandcounting wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:regardless, the idea that someone who has "lived through it" is far more likely to arrive at <whatever albums> as their favourite is ridiculous

So, you don't think the culture of the early 90's had a different effect on an album than say when Gigaton was released, and no one other than some of us message board nerds gives a flying F about PJ?

that question has nothing to do with what I said

if I think "things were different then" because times have changed, that has zero bearing on which albums I think you're allowed to enjoy most: speaking "objectively", Riot Act wipes the floor with Ten in just about every way

Except songs

oooonce... upoooon a tiiiimmme... I could luuuuurve yoooou yeeeah yeeeeaaah yeeeeah

Ms Harmless wrote:oooonce... upoooon a tiiiimmme... I could luuuuurve yoooou yeeeah yeeeeaaah yeeeeah

A moment that one could imagine Roger Daltry belting out in 71, but that could also sit comfortably on Blizzard of Ozz? Yesss.

I'm a simple man. All I ask of any band is that they never make Love Boat Captain.

Though I have to confess that, as songs on the album Ten go by, I’m rather partial to the one at the end with all the mooing.

Ms Harmless wrote:oooonce... upoooon a tiiiimmme... I could luuuuurve yoooou yeeeah yeeeeaaah yeeeeah

One of my most cherished PJ songs....Think very carefully about where you choose to tread next.

Ms Harmless wrote:

15showsandcounting wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:regardless, the idea that someone who has "lived through it" is far more likely to arrive at <whatever albums> as their favourite is ridiculous

So, you don't think the culture of the early 90's had a different effect on an album than say when Gigaton was released, and no one other than some of us message board nerds gives a flying F about PJ?

that question has nothing to do with what I said

if I think "things were different then" because times have changed, that has zero bearing on which albums I think you're allowed to enjoy most: speaking "objectively", Riot Act wipes the floor with Ten in just about every way

Lol. That's all I got.

There's absolutely a valuable perspective that comes from experiencing the music "as it happened," and as someone who likes a lot of artists who are long dead or damn near, that perspective becomes increasingly valuable the further it becomes from the norm. When I occasionally come across stories from people who experienced the '50's jazz scene in NYC, or saw Bob Dylan live in 1966, or experienced Beatlemania as it happened, I perk up and listen. That stuff is interesting to me.

However, the idea that this makes a person's rankings or personal preferences any more "definitive" is ludicrous. In this regard, "lifelong fan with unique in-the-moment context" and "fresh-faced listener unburdened by historical or contextual baggage" are simply two different, equally compelling (and equally likely to devolve into overly self-assured idiocy) lenses through which to view the music. All fanbases will slowly morph from being defined wholly by the former to being defined wholly by the latter, so its dumb to begrudge the people on that far end of the spectrum their likely circumstantial moment of experience with the band. Time is on their side, after all.

FWIW I have been a fan since early 1995, and my favorite albums are Yield, Riot Act, and No Code (in that order).

oneway23 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:oooonce... upoooon a tiiiimmme... I could luuuuurve yoooou yeeeah yeeeeaaah yeeeeah

One of my most cherished PJ songs....Think very carefully about where you choose to tread next.

*shudders*