Red Mosquito

verb_to_trust wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:Whoa, had never heard that he may have been faking the stomach stuff. Troubling.

Always seemed like a classic addict excuse to me

warehouse wrote:pearl jam was huge in 1994 because they wrote great music. at that point they stopped making videos and refused to release "black" as a single after being told to by record execs. those are things nirvana never did.

Kevin Davis wrote:

warehouse wrote:pearl jam was huge in 1994 because they wrote great music. at that point they stopped making videos and refused to release "black" as a single after being told to by record execs. those are things nirvana never did.

My point was that, while Kurt was alive, Pearl Jam's "pullback" hadn't yet succeeded in mitigating their popularity**, and indeed in many ways had produced the opposite effect (with Vs. at the time setting records for first week sales). Your suggestion that, despite this, Nirvana should have followed that example and done those same things, as if for the sake of the gestures themselves, is a microcosm for what is wrong with this line of criticism of Cobain. As liebzz's post alludes to, it has nothing to do with what may or may not have been the right decision for Nirvana as a band, and everything to do with people's need for Cobain to embody a certain set of principles in their own mind. I get that to an extent it's just the nature of celebrity, but people's Monday morning quarterbacking of Kurt Cobain's business decisions based on the narrow window of insight we have into his life and mind is tabloid noise. Ultimately no one has any idea.

**Part of me wonders whether the slowing of PJ's popularity, which really didn't take hold until No Code, really had anything to do with this media pullback at all, and wasn't just the natural thing that happens to artist after five or so years of large scale popularity (coupled with the fact that No Code was, musically, a less commercial album than any of their peers had made to that point). Most of those bands kind of fizzled commercially (or literally) within that 2-3 year period of time.

Anders wrote:Millions of people that weren’t famous have either od’d or killed themselves because of this kind of addiction. Surely that’s where it all starts and leads back to regarding his death.

Birds in Hell wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

wease wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:yeah, she was fucked up but that guy was already a slacker before her. All his girlfriends pay for his stuff and he was just there.

Again, the Buzz Osborne excerpt from a few years ago...i feel kinda like that.

What did Buzz say?

Basically, that he was a liar. A lot of stuff he said was just stuff he made up to look cool and fuck with people.

I'm not sure that's an accurate characterisation of Buzz's comments, if we're talking about his views on Brett Morgan's Montage of Heck.

The original link to that piece looks to have disappeared, but a cached version is still available.

He does say Kurt was a "master of jerking your chain", but that's specifically in reference to the filmmakers presenting the "“I tried to fuck a fat retard” story" as fact, when Buzz insists the anecdote (which wasn't something Kurt shared publicly while alive in any event) was 100% fictional.

He's generally very defensive of Kurt, including in the piece. He's stridently critical of his drug use, but I think that's something which is both par for the course with Buzz and also understandable given he feels Kurt's addiction contributed towards his needless death.

Kevin Davis wrote:I certainly join you in wishing Cobain had found a healthier way to deal with his struggles. But again, I don't think sympathy is what drives this type of supposed exposition of Cobain's inconsistencies. I think liebzz's (admirably honest) post says as much: There's simply a self-satisfaction in taking an unimpeachable icon off his pedestal. "He says he was anti-corporate, and everyone lauds him for being anti-corporate, but look at all these things he did that weren't anti-corporate!" I'm sure I've done it too, if not with Cobain; it is, as one of his peers once said, a pattern in all mankind.

That said, I've been around people who have been exhuming Cobain's personal life and tortured psyche since I was 11 years old, and I feel like I've heard every possible avenue of criticism and analysis of it, positive and negative, and have ultimately come to this conclusion: None of it changes how I hear his music. If he was really a corporate suckup despite claiming otherwise, "Drain You" is still "Drain You."

Anders wrote:We will indeed always have the music. With Pearl Jam I’ve always felt the endless Ed gushing has been exaggerated, when he comes from such a highly talented band, that had Ten more or less finished musically before he even joined. With Nirvana though, Cobain felt like he was a very large part of that band.

Kevin Davis wrote:I certainly join you in wishing Cobain had found a healthier way to deal with his struggles. But again, I don't think sympathy is what drives this type of supposed exposition of Cobain's inconsistencies. I think liebzz's (admirably honest) post says as much: There's simply a self-satisfaction in taking an unimpeachable icon off his pedestal. "He says he was anti-corporate, and everyone lauds him for being anti-corporate, but look at all these things he did that weren't anti-corporate!" I'm sure I've done it too, if not with Cobain; it is, as one of his peers once said, a pattern in all mankind.

That said, I've been around people who have been exhuming Cobain's personal life and tortured psyche since I was 11 years old, and I feel like I've heard every possible avenue of criticism and analysis of it, positive and negative, and have ultimately come to this conclusion: None of it changes how I hear his music. If he was really a corporate suckup despite claiming otherwise, "Drain You" is still "Drain You."

tragabigzanda wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:Top 10 maybe?
Hello Morning
Close Captioned
The Kill
Place/Position
Do You Like Me?
Latest Disgrace
Recap Modotti
Nightshop
Break
Life & Limb

I'd maybe bump Life & Limb for Epic Problem

tragabigzanda wrote:wanted to hate, but this was pretty good