Red Mosquito

Bi_3 wrote:

Orpheus wrote:
Allow me to rebutt: it's easy to not be hysterical when you are in the one group that is considered "off limits" to the new regime. Other people have very good reasons to be terrified.

Can you give me an example of what you mean? What groups, exactly, are suddenly 'on limits'?

Minority students in colleges who have to read signs saying that "vigilante squads" are coming to tar and feather them. Muslim women having their hijabs ripped off in broad daylight. Women being told "time to get back in the kitchen" at stoplights, and then when the attacker realizes they're Mexican, they add in "go back to your country." Things like "Trump'a America Now, Get Out N------" on the side of a bridge. The KKK openly marching in celebration in North Carolina. Women being openly groped in the streets.

All in the first 24 hours. So you know, no big deal.

Birds in Hell wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Protests taking place in NYC and SF and some other places.

Bring out the water cannons.

I should be surprised the worst post in the whole thread is from an Australian, but I guess I'm not surprised by anything anymore.

Orpheus wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Protests taking place in NYC and SF and some other places.

Bring out the water cannons.

I should be surprised the worst post in the whole thread is from an Australian, but I guess I'm not surprised by anything anymore.

speeno also thinks that pj should do shorter setlists that are uniform throughout a tour.

maybe something is wrong

oh and hi Orpheus

I went to the Hawks game last night. The arena is part of the CNN Center and is next to Centennial Park. As I was leaving the game I heard the protesters. There's also some brush fires north of Atlanta that is making the city a little smoky right now. The combination of hearing the protesters and police helicopters, seeing the haze in the city lights, and the light smell of smoke made for an erie feeling.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I've never felt my empathy and compassion be as tested as they are right now, because every instinct in me is telling me that all conservatives are fucking idiots and I don't want anything to do with them. Which makes me profoundly sad. I don't want to feel this way.

You don't have to. The tribalism that results from identity politics is toxic to our souls. Reject it and watch the world come alive again.

I know, but the other tribe sure doesn't make it very easy. And it's hard to keep that human torch burning when so few others do.

Look when it comes down to it, we elected a bigot that flirts with authoritarianism. There's no way that's not going to be grating. But I'd prefer to imagine those were not the reasons Trump voters pulled the levers, moreso that they weren't disqualifying. That doesn't excuse the vote, and isn't much better.

That being said, the notion I see increasingly peddled, particularly amongst Trump supporters in the aftermath of a win that seemed to even surprise them, that this anger and vote is based entirely in economic anxiety as opposed to a racial and demographic anxiety, is quite simply daft. That's not to say the former wasn't an issue, or that the two didn't inform each other, but if you can't even name the problem it's never going to get solved.

There is one final note of small optimism, which is that she got more votes. Despite her issues and the immense popularity among Trump's base that was never going to be swayed, she convinced a few more people. Now look at what's happening; Trump's having issues filling intelligence posts cause no one wants to work for him, he's considering Ben Carson and Sarah Palin for cabinet posts, and seems to have been surprised himself that people actually voted for him. It's possible we're heading for a presidency marked by unparalleled incompetence, and all the next Democratic candidate has to do in four years is convince a few more people in the right places. That doesn't seem difficult to do.

Orpheus wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Orpheus wrote:
Allow me to rebutt: it's easy to not be hysterical when you are in the one group that is considered "off limits" to the new regime. Other people have very good reasons to be terrified.

Can you give me an example of what you mean? What groups, exactly, are suddenly 'on limits'?

Minority students in colleges who have to read signs saying that "vigilante squads" are coming to tar and feather them. Muslim women having their hijabs ripped off in broad daylight. Women being told "time to get back in the kitchen" at stoplights, and then when the attacker realizes they're Mexican, they add in "go back to your country." Things like "Trump'a America Now, Get Out N------" on the side of a bridge. The KKK openly marching in celebration in North Carolina. Women being openly groped in the streets.

All in the first 24 hours. So you know, no big deal.

My parents' former neighbors (who are white, one is even British) have an adopted daughter who is black, and she goes to a very, very white neighborhood elementary school. She came home yesterday to ask when she'd be leaving the school, because a number of her classmates told her that she's not allowed anymore because of the new president. USA?

This whole idea that straight white males aren't going to be affected by Trump's policies is asinine. This is a guy who is going to deregulate business, destroy the environment, and cripple the economy. We are all going to feel that shit. It's a different kind of threat, but let's not act like we're "safe."

Simple Torture wrote:

Orpheus wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Orpheus wrote:
Allow me to rebutt: it's easy to not be hysterical when you are in the one group that is considered "off limits" to the new regime. Other people have very good reasons to be terrified.

Can you give me an example of what you mean? What groups, exactly, are suddenly 'on limits'?

Minority students in colleges who have to read signs saying that "vigilante squads" are coming to tar and feather them. Muslim women having their hijabs ripped off in broad daylight. Women being told "time to get back in the kitchen" at stoplights, and then when the attacker realizes they're Mexican, they add in "go back to your country." Things like "Trump'a America Now, Get Out N------" on the side of a bridge. The KKK openly marching in celebration in North Carolina. Women being openly groped in the streets.

All in the first 24 hours. So you know, no big deal.

My parents' former neighbors (who are white, one is even British) have an adopted daughter who is black, and she goes to a very, very white neighborhood elementary school. She came home yesterday to ask when she'd be leaving the school, because a number of her classmates told her that she's not allowed anymore because of the new president. USA?

That's pretty bad and it's tragic since we have existed as a nation for so long without any of this type of thing happening, but again, just so I fully understand, which laws or executive actions did Trump enact to cause this?

Bi_3 wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

Orpheus wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Orpheus wrote:
Allow me to rebutt: it's easy to not be hysterical when you are in the one group that is considered "off limits" to the new regime. Other people have very good reasons to be terrified.

Can you give me an example of what you mean? What groups, exactly, are suddenly 'on limits'?

Minority students in colleges who have to read signs saying that "vigilante squads" are coming to tar and feather them. Muslim women having their hijabs ripped off in broad daylight. Women being told "time to get back in the kitchen" at stoplights, and then when the attacker realizes they're Mexican, they add in "go back to your country." Things like "Trump'a America Now, Get Out N------" on the side of a bridge. The KKK openly marching in celebration in North Carolina. Women being openly groped in the streets.

All in the first 24 hours. So you know, no big deal.

My parents' former neighbors (who are white, one is even British) have an adopted daughter who is black, and she goes to a very, very white neighborhood elementary school. She came home yesterday to ask when she'd be leaving the school, because a number of her classmates told her that she's not allowed anymore because of the new president. USA?

That's pretty bad and it's tragic since we have existed as a nation for so long without any of this type of thing happening, but again, just so I fully understand, which laws or executive actions did Trump enact to cause this?

You're being disingenuous. Obviously, he has not passed any actions or supported any laws to cause something like this, but it's a clear example of how the rhetoric of his campaign has affected how very impressionable people--kids, in this case--misunderstand race. And Orpheus's examples are just a few of many that demonstrate that Trump's campaign has contributed to an atmosphere or permissiveness for acting racist, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, and misogynistic in public. None of us said this never happened before, but to pretend that this stuff isn't percolating to the surface and happening on a wider scale in a way it hasn't in years is absurd.

Simple Torture wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

Orpheus wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Orpheus wrote:
Allow me to rebutt: it's easy to not be hysterical when you are in the one group that is considered "off limits" to the new regime. Other people have very good reasons to be terrified.

Can you give me an example of what you mean? What groups, exactly, are suddenly 'on limits'?

Minority students in colleges who have to read signs saying that "vigilante squads" are coming to tar and feather them. Muslim women having their hijabs ripped off in broad daylight. Women being told "time to get back in the kitchen" at stoplights, and then when the attacker realizes they're Mexican, they add in "go back to your country." Things like "Trump'a America Now, Get Out N------" on the side of a bridge. The KKK openly marching in celebration in North Carolina. Women being openly groped in the streets.

All in the first 24 hours. So you know, no big deal.

My parents' former neighbors (who are white, one is even British) have an adopted daughter who is black, and she goes to a very, very white neighborhood elementary school. She came home yesterday to ask when she'd be leaving the school, because a number of her classmates told her that she's not allowed anymore because of the new president. USA?

That's pretty bad and it's tragic since we have existed as a nation for so long without any of this type of thing happening, but again, just so I fully understand, which laws or executive actions did Trump enact to cause this?

You're being disingenuous. Obviously, he has not passed any actions or supported any laws to cause something like this, but it's a clear example of how the rhetoric of his campaign has affected how very impressionable people--kids, in this case--misunderstand race. And Orpheus's examples are just a few of many that demonstrate that Trump's campaign has contributed to an atmosphere or permissiveness for acting racist, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, and misogynistic in public. None of us said this never happened before, but to pretend that this stuff isn't percolating to the surface and happening on a wider scale in a way it hasn't in years is absurd.

And before you say, "Those are all anecdotal," the data backs it up, too: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/us/po ... -rise.html

B wrote:Meyers was outstanding, by the way.

God damn, that was outstanding. Thanks.

tragabigzanda wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

Orpheus wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Orpheus wrote:
Allow me to rebutt: it's easy to not be hysterical when you are in the one group that is considered "off limits" to the new regime. Other people have very good reasons to be terrified.

Can you give me an example of what you mean? What groups, exactly, are suddenly 'on limits'?

Minority students in colleges who have to read signs saying that "vigilante squads" are coming to tar and feather them. Muslim women having their hijabs ripped off in broad daylight. Women being told "time to get back in the kitchen" at stoplights, and then when the attacker realizes they're Mexican, they add in "go back to your country." Things like "Trump'a America Now, Get Out N------" on the side of a bridge. The KKK openly marching in celebration in North Carolina. Women being openly groped in the streets.

All in the first 24 hours. So you know, no big deal.

My parents' former neighbors (who are white, one is even British) have an adopted daughter who is black, and she goes to a very, very white neighborhood elementary school. She came home yesterday to ask when she'd be leaving the school, because a number of her classmates told her that she's not allowed anymore because of the new president. USA?

That's pretty bad and it's tragic since we have existed as a nation for so long without any of this type of thing happening, but again, just so I fully understand, which laws or executive actions did Trump enact to cause this?

You're being disingenuous. Obviously, he has not passed any actions or supported any laws to cause something like this, but it's a clear example of how the rhetoric of his campaign has affected how very impressionable people--kids, in this case--misunderstand race. And Orpheus's examples are just a few of many that demonstrate that Trump's campaign has contributed to an atmosphere or permissiveness for acting racist, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, and misogynistic in public. None of us said this never happened before, but to pretend that this stuff isn't percolating to the surface and happening on a wider scale in a way it hasn't in years is absurd.

And before you say, "Those are all anecdotal," the data backs it up, too: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/us/po ... -rise.html

Is data presented by the NYT carrying as much weight these days?

Hardy har har, trag.

Bi_3 wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I've never felt my empathy and compassion be as tested as they are right now, because every instinct in me is telling me that all conservatives are fucking idiots and I don't want anything to do with them. Which makes me profoundly sad. I don't want to feel this way.

You don't have to. The tribalism that results from identity politics is toxic to our souls. Reject it and watch the world come alive again.

tragabigzanda wrote: Barring any of the violence I mentioned under my "scared" category, I don't believe this election has set us back 100 years; more like 16 years, to Bush's first term. We're faced with another buffoon who will fill his cabinet with selfish nitwits, they'll fuck up the world a little bit, then the dems will coast back in 2020. As to one of my largest concerns -- the environment -- I think Obama's Johnny Appleseed approach to private-sector economic initiatives for green companies will offset Trump's impacts to a significant degree. Wash, rinse, repeat, and spend the next four years praying no bombs go off because someone made fun of our President's hairline.

We're in the same boat with a lot of feelings, trag, but I'd caution on the bit I've bolded above. Remember: that's what most people said about Bush in 2000, too (just replace "2020" with "2004").

tragabigzanda wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

Orpheus wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Orpheus wrote:
Allow me to rebutt: it's easy to not be hysterical when you are in the one group that is considered "off limits" to the new regime. Other people have very good reasons to be terrified.

Can you give me an example of what you mean? What groups, exactly, are suddenly 'on limits'?

Minority students in colleges who have to read signs saying that "vigilante squads" are coming to tar and feather them. Muslim women having their hijabs ripped off in broad daylight. Women being told "time to get back in the kitchen" at stoplights, and then when the attacker realizes they're Mexican, they add in "go back to your country." Things like "Trump'a America Now, Get Out N------" on the side of a bridge. The KKK openly marching in celebration in North Carolina. Women being openly groped in the streets.

All in the first 24 hours. So you know, no big deal.

My parents' former neighbors (who are white, one is even British) have an adopted daughter who is black, and she goes to a very, very white neighborhood elementary school. She came home yesterday to ask when she'd be leaving the school, because a number of her classmates told her that she's not allowed anymore because of the new president. USA?

That's pretty bad and it's tragic since we have existed as a nation for so long without any of this type of thing happening, but again, just so I fully understand, which laws or executive actions did Trump enact to cause this?

You're being disingenuous. Obviously, he has not passed any actions or supported any laws to cause something like this, but it's a clear example of how the rhetoric of his campaign has affected how very impressionable people--kids, in this case--misunderstand race. And Orpheus's examples are just a few of many that demonstrate that Trump's campaign has contributed to an atmosphere or permissiveness for acting racist, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, and misogynistic in public. None of us said this never happened before, but to pretend that this stuff isn't percolating to the surface and happening on a wider scale in a way it hasn't in years is absurd.

And before you say, "Those are all anecdotal," the data backs it up, too: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/us/po ... -rise.html

Is data presented by the NYT carrying as much weight these days?

Hardy har har, trag.

Honestly not trying to be funny here. I've read the NYT every single day for the last six years or so of my life. I'm done with it. It's a fucking echo chamber for the financially comfortable and culturally literate. I'm not saying I'll never read another NYT article again, but it's clear they position their information in such a way as to make their base readers feel really good about themselves.

Eh, print journalism, particularly print investigative journalism, was fairly strong during this season. Clinton and Trump's dirty laundry were readily accessible and well-reported. Broadcast journalism and particularly cable news was in the toilet, but it usually is. And for all the faults in the actual coverage, there has been a lot of ink spilled over the past two years trying to understand the root causes and economic issues that led people to support Trump, more than there were in-depth looks at the communities either supporting Clinton or endangered by Trump. It makes you question who's really not being spoken for, at least in the media (although, speaking as a member of the so-called media, I always find it grating that the industry is considered to be this monolithic, uniform entity. It's not in the least).

Simple Torture wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote: Barring any of the violence I mentioned under my "scared" category, I don't believe this election has set us back 100 years; more like 16 years, to Bush's first term. We're faced with another buffoon who will fill his cabinet with selfish nitwits, they'll fuck up the world a little bit, then the dems will coast back in 2020. As to one of my largest concerns -- the environment -- I think Obama's Johnny Appleseed approach to private-sector economic initiatives for green companies will offset Trump's impacts to a significant degree. Wash, rinse, repeat, and spend the next four years praying no bombs go off because someone made fun of our President's hairline.

We're in the same boat with a lot of feelings, trag, but I'd caution on the bit I've bolded above. Remember: that's what most people said about Bush in 2000, too (just replace "2020" with "2004").

I think the two things I find particularly worrisome are this;

1. Can anyone imagine Trump after Sandy Hook or San Bernadino? After the Boston Marathon bombing or Orlando? It's going to happen during the time he's president and I think he will absolutely make a bad situation far worse.

2. His approach to any obstacle, criticism or challenge seems to be to go ugly. He just simply seems more comfortable accentuating conflicts, preying on divisions and stoking aggression between groups. That's why, although I'm sure Trump supporters would say they were distractions, his many conflicts throughout the course of the campaign, from the Khan family to the Machado woman and so and so forth, were actually illuminating. It wasn't just the incidents themselves, but that his innate response in each situation was to bully, up the ugliness quotient of the situation and believe that drowning everyone in the swamp would leave him victorious. And he's right; it won him the presidency. But to apply that to the day-to-day job of the presidency is pretty disconcerting. And to say that this approach will not be his approach in office is just to say he will turn his back on the way he has acted throughout his campaign, and really throughout his entire public life. He can withstand the pull of his base instincts for the span of a victory speech. There is no way he will hold them back for four years in office. No one could.