Red Mosquito

Anders wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Personally, I like the idea of the Skywalkers being a special exception to the rule that force users are essentially random (because of how Anakin was born.) But making that a general rule that children of force users makes you more likely to be one is pretty boring. Being Palpatine's grandkid shouldn't bestow any special powers on you.

But that's just how I'd do it. I assume special bloodlines has been done to death before these movies in the EU.

It’s probably like real life. Sometimes genes matter, but more often they don’t. Like atlethes and their children.

Palpatine is certainly a special case.

Anders wrote:

wease wrote:

Anders wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Anders wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Anders wrote:Based fully on TFA and to a minor degree on TLJ, Rey not being connected to someone, and Kylo being the main villain, would have been very poor decisions, and that has nothing to do with bravery. Like I’ve pointed out before, no one else in the trilogy is connected to anyone. All of it has to do with the story told in TFA.

You don’t have to be a Skywalker/Palpatine to use the force, never have. But the power involved from Palpatine is extremely powerful (Phantom Menace/Revenge Of The Sith/Return Of The Jedi). And that is a vital part of this nine movie saga. To ignore with many of the same characters would make for poor storytelling.

Crazy talk.

How so?

This idea that there is no way to deviate from doing the same thing over again because it won't fit into Star Wars just shows a lack of imagination. It's certainly possible. Even these movies have been recontextualized a few times. Heck, the first movie suggested that anyone could be a Jedi and that bloodlines didn't matter. You could totally continue that thread after TLJ, and it would have given these characters some chance to stand on their own for once.

Let’s make this clear once and fior all: Anyone (not everyone) can be a jedi. Genetics can matter, as they did from the first act of A New Hope. Most people in TROS do not come from any significant bloodline that we know of. Rey was set up from the very start of TFA to be different than that, and very much connected.

No one said you have to do the same thing over again, rather you would want the final chapter in a book to be connected to the previous eight chapters, and not be a separate thing.

That doesn’t mean you have to remake the previous chapters. They can be connected (and I’m all for it) and not have the plots pulled from all the other movies.

I do not feel that TROS was a remake. I think it used elements of what has been before in a logical and smart way. Like the battle between Rey and Kylo being similar but opposite to the battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan from epi 3.

wease wrote:

Anders wrote:

wease wrote:

Anders wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Anders wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Anders wrote:Based fully on TFA and to a minor degree on TLJ, Rey not being connected to someone, and Kylo being the main villain, would have been very poor decisions, and that has nothing to do with bravery. Like I’ve pointed out before, no one else in the trilogy is connected to anyone. All of it has to do with the story told in TFA.

You don’t have to be a Skywalker/Palpatine to use the force, never have. But the power involved from Palpatine is extremely powerful (Phantom Menace/Revenge Of The Sith/Return Of The Jedi). And that is a vital part of this nine movie saga. To ignore with many of the same characters would make for poor storytelling.

Crazy talk.

How so?

This idea that there is no way to deviate from doing the same thing over again because it won't fit into Star Wars just shows a lack of imagination. It's certainly possible. Even these movies have been recontextualized a few times. Heck, the first movie suggested that anyone could be a Jedi and that bloodlines didn't matter. You could totally continue that thread after TLJ, and it would have given these characters some chance to stand on their own for once.

Let’s make this clear once and fior all: Anyone (not everyone) can be a jedi. Genetics can matter, as they did from the first act of A New Hope. Most people in TROS do not come from any significant bloodline that we know of. Rey was set up from the very start of TFA to be different than that, and very much connected.

No one said you have to do the same thing over again, rather you would want the final chapter in a book to be connected to the previous eight chapters, and not be a separate thing.

That doesn’t mean you have to remake the previous chapters. They can be connected (and I’m all for it) and not have the plots pulled from all the other movies.

I do not feel that TROS was a remake. I think it used elements of what has been before in a logical and smart way. Like the battle between Rey and Kylo being similar but opposite to the battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan from epi 3.

What about the whole ground team needed to take out the shield generator using Ewoks or space horses to defy technology while the fleet fought in space lead by Lando piloting the Falcon while Luke/Rey and Vader/Ren battled the Emperor? That’s a direct swipe from ROTJ.

B wrote:

wease wrote:

Anders wrote:

wease wrote:

Anders wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Anders wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Anders wrote:Based fully on TFA and to a minor degree on TLJ, Rey not being connected to someone, and Kylo being the main villain, would have been very poor decisions, and that has nothing to do with bravery. Like I’ve pointed out before, no one else in the trilogy is connected to anyone. All of it has to do with the story told in TFA.

You don’t have to be a Skywalker/Palpatine to use the force, never have. But the power involved from Palpatine is extremely powerful (Phantom Menace/Revenge Of The Sith/Return Of The Jedi). And that is a vital part of this nine movie saga. To ignore with many of the same characters would make for poor storytelling.

Crazy talk.

How so?

This idea that there is no way to deviate from doing the same thing over again because it won't fit into Star Wars just shows a lack of imagination. It's certainly possible. Even these movies have been recontextualized a few times. Heck, the first movie suggested that anyone could be a Jedi and that bloodlines didn't matter. You could totally continue that thread after TLJ, and it would have given these characters some chance to stand on their own for once.

Let’s make this clear once and fior all: Anyone (not everyone) can be a jedi. Genetics can matter, as they did from the first act of A New Hope. Most people in TROS do not come from any significant bloodline that we know of. Rey was set up from the very start of TFA to be different than that, and very much connected.

No one said you have to do the same thing over again, rather you would want the final chapter in a book to be connected to the previous eight chapters, and not be a separate thing.

That doesn’t mean you have to remake the previous chapters. They can be connected (and I’m all for it) and not have the plots pulled from all the other movies.

I do not feel that TROS was a remake. I think it used elements of what has been before in a logical and smart way. Like the battle between Rey and Kylo being similar but opposite to the battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan from epi 3.

What about the whole ground team needed to take out the shield generator using Ewoks or space horses to defy technology while the fleet fought in space lead by Lando piloting the Falcon while Luke/Rey and Vader/Ren battled the Emperor? That’s a direct swipe from ROTJ.

Some one online pointed out that if they'd just tipped the ship sideways, all the horses would have fallen off. Defy technology. Pfft!

wease wrote:

Anders wrote:

wease wrote:

Anders wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Anders wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Anders wrote:Based fully on TFA and to a minor degree on TLJ, Rey not being connected to someone, and Kylo being the main villain, would have been very poor decisions, and that has nothing to do with bravery. Like I’ve pointed out before, no one else in the trilogy is connected to anyone. All of it has to do with the story told in TFA.

You don’t have to be a Skywalker/Palpatine to use the force, never have. But the power involved from Palpatine is extremely powerful (Phantom Menace/Revenge Of The Sith/Return Of The Jedi). And that is a vital part of this nine movie saga. To ignore with many of the same characters would make for poor storytelling.

Crazy talk.

How so?

This idea that there is no way to deviate from doing the same thing over again because it won't fit into Star Wars just shows a lack of imagination. It's certainly possible. Even these movies have been recontextualized a few times. Heck, the first movie suggested that anyone could be a Jedi and that bloodlines didn't matter. You could totally continue that thread after TLJ, and it would have given these characters some chance to stand on their own for once.

Let’s make this clear once and fior all: Anyone (not everyone) can be a jedi. Genetics can matter, as they did from the first act of A New Hope. Most people in TROS do not come from any significant bloodline that we know of. Rey was set up from the very start of TFA to be different than that, and very much connected.

No one said you have to do the same thing over again, rather you would want the final chapter in a book to be connected to the previous eight chapters, and not be a separate thing.

That doesn’t mean you have to remake the previous chapters. They can be connected (and I’m all for it) and not have the plots pulled from all the other movies.

I do not feel that TROS was a remake. I think it used elements of what has been before in a logical and smart way. Like the battle between Rey and Kylo being similar but opposite to the battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan from epi 3.

What about the whole ground team needed to take out the shield generator using Ewoks or space horses to defy technology while the fleet fought in space lead by Lando piloting the Falcon while Luke/Rey and Vader/Ren battled the Emperor? That’s a direct swipe from ROTJ.

BurtReynolds wrote:The video Plat posted talked about how it's kind of a fashy idea, which it kinda is the way it's presented here. But it also seemed like the guy in the video was suggesting it would be better if anyone could use the Force with enough training, which I'd disagree with.

Since The Force is a stand-in for great and rare talent, it makes sense that force sensitivity should strike people at random, since in the real world great talent can manifest in any type of person. But at the same time, most people will never have it no matter what they do.

The Skywalkers would suffice for covering the genetic aspect I think, but whatever.

Anyway Nietzschean Star Wars is better than JJ Abrams Star Wars.

dimejinky99 wrote:You can relax boys.

Ahsoka lives

Spoiler: show

What a great way to wrap it up. It certainly wasn't a carbon copy of ROTJ, in fact I even wondered if the light sabre fight between Rey and Kylo would be the last seen. After all the criticism of TLJ being too similar to Empire, I wondered if such a radical different kind of ending would be resorted to. Measuring this film against my wishes, the hero inevitably wasn't a sand person (unless you count Rey), the hero fighter wasn't a Y-Wing however for the 1st time since Jedi (going by film time, not release date in the real world) it made its return. I wanted Kylo to not turn to good or evil, and to just do his thing like he did in TLJ. Well, he did turn to good, but the way him and Rey were never just good or just evil was really even better than I wished for. They saved each other because of the anger and fear in them both, and they could see the evil in the other. This solved the problem of the 1st 6 episodes, where today's Jedi was tomorrow's Sith. Rey and Kylo were not exclusively Jedi or Sith, they were human. They acknowledged everything within themselves instead of trying to suppress it. Leia being in it was a great surprise, as was Lando even though the latter had been hinted at. The power struggle between Hux and Kylo was good, and it kind of reminded me of Blair not caring if Johnson wins, just wanting Corbyn to lose. Luke's character was a good bringing together of different versions of him, like the way cheeky Yoda before Luke realised he was Yoda, and death bed Yoda were brought together in TLJ. Han saying "I'm your memory" is more real than we think - we know our mind can put things together that we're missing (ask any fire fighter who got out before an explosion but didn't know why), and we know that our instincts can form hallucinations. I only recognised Wedge because of New Tricks, and he was always my favourite character in the 4-6 episodes. I also feel the film was true to the character development of TLJ. Poe went from being the wannabe leader to the reluctant leader. He knew he couldn't solve everything by getting in an X-wing and blowing stuff up, in fact he nearly gave up at one point. Finn listened to others more than he did when he tried to escape in an escape pod.

Now the bad bits - it wasn't obvious that we hadn't seen Richard E Grants's character before, similar to how in episode 7 we should have found out Poe was alive before we saw him half hidden by a helmet (and how did Maz survive episode 7?!). This is something no-one post Lucas can help, it was sewn in Jedi - why isn't it possible to kill Palpatine for the right reasons, without turning to the dark side? Why can you only kill him in anger or fear, why not because he needs to be killed which he does? I appreciate Rey did eventually kill him, but that still doesn't answer the question of why she couldn't kill him before. And the worst thing of all - if Palpatine came back from the dead before, what's the point in any of it? What's the point in killing him this time?

A few things on a personal note - as an Englishman I love the fact that the hero is English, in fact I revel in the anti-English racism of the "worst Star Wars hero ever" brigade. I managed to stay in my seat despite a weak bladder and a cold cinema, although admittedly I hadn't drunk anything since the previous night. Why don't they advertise the entire time and/or the start time of the film?! Including the adverts and trailers I was in there nearly 3 hours, probably the length of a Pearl Jam gig including the encore breaks. And it was a nice birthday present.

As we enter the decade when the British Empire finally comes to an end, what better way to close this one than by watching Star Wars (a story about another Empire) conclude?

Anders wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:You can relax boys.

Ahsoka lives

Is that Gandalf?