Red Mosquito

Good conversation here, gentlemen.

McParadigm wrote:I am talking about the natural consequences of building 80% of your new material on “remember this character?“ The inevitable results of developing your projects on a presumption of existing interest, shortcutting an endless parade of “more,” where there should be “new.“

This franchise’s survival is ultimately going to depend on the ability to craft stories that don’t market themselves on you already having an emotional attachment. That don’t depend on you liking Ahsoka beforehand so you’ll tune in, and don’t assume you give a shit about a blue skin admiral from a book in the 90s. Stories that can make somebody who has no Star Wars nostalgia or pre-existing interest curious for a moment. It is terribly imbalanced with insular content right now.

I think this is spot on as long as new stuff is balanced with some content that carries on the legacy via familiar characters and settings. Mandalorian (at least the early stuff) seemed to balance those two categories well. Andor and Ahsoka (so far) are good examples of operating successfully at opposite ends of that philosophy.

What excited me as much as anything else in Last Jedi was how it ended, wiping the slate clean of the uber villain baggage and Skywalker legacy and seeming to want to focus on a new cast of characters without being weighed down by that past baggage. Overreactive damage control and JJ put an end to that. And we likely lost the chance at a completely separate, new story in the form of Rian Johnson's rumored trilogy because of that overreaction (by both fans and Disney).

Strat wrote:Is that even possible with a property like Star Wars? Its been in the public sphere for 45 darn years. If it doesn't harken back to some form of star wars story, then is it even star wars and if not, then whats the point?

Andor. It certainly has ties to the legacy and history but doesn't depend on it.

Ensign9 wrote:

Strat wrote:Is that even possible with a property like Star Wars? Its been in the public sphere for 45 darn years. If it doesn't harken back to some form of star wars story, then is it even star wars and if not, then whats the point?

Andor.

Eh, I get it can stand on its own but to say its not baked into star wars lore/history previous storylines is a bit disengenious.

You edited, bastard!

See my edit but agree. If it doesn't have some tie to the legacy, then it obviously becomes something else that isn't Star Wars. But there's a big difference between acknowledging that legacy and being dependent upon it.

Strat wrote:You edited, bastard!

I rightly anticipated your reply before you wrote it!

Also, im okay with stuff existing for the fans. I dont see anything inheriantly wrong about that. Star Wars will be fine if they don't win over average joe who has little knowledge of Star Wars. Particularly, for streaming services and episodic tv such as Dinsey+

Ensign9 wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:Ahsoka is not a show based on nostalgia.

Nostalgia may not be the right word but it certainly rewards having a history with Clone Wars and Rebels.

i havent seen nor i will see those two shows. And im enjoying these episodes, much more than i did with every SW tv show. Mainly because i think its telling a story instead of winking at the camera EY LOOK R2, EY PALPS IS BACK!!

Im sure that if you know those shows they payoff is bigger, but the same could be said about every goddamn comic book or video game they did to sell stuff between movies.

Also, like i say most of the time

fuck critics

Ensign9 wrote:Lots of bitching from critics that have never watched Rebels. The latest episode of The Watch was essentially just Andy and Chris whining for 30 minutes.

I sympathize with the feeling a "mass market" show shouldn't require homework but I wouldn't want Filoni dumbing it down. Go watch Rebels, you hacks.

Does CR ever pronounce Ahsoka's name correctly in that 30 mins?

Star Wars has been doing this since 1978, tho. Almost right out of the gate. They’ve been building on nostalgia for 45 years.

Strat wrote:

Ensign9 wrote:

Strat wrote:Is that even possible with a property like Star Wars? Its been in the public sphere for 45 darn years. If it doesn't harken back to some form of star wars story, then is it even star wars and if not, then whats the point?

Andor.

Eh, I get it can stand on its own but to say its not baked into star wars lore/history previous storylines is a bit disengenious.

Nobody said this

Strat wrote:Star Wars will be fine if they don't win over average joe who has little knowledge of Star Wars. Particularly, for streaming services and episodic tv such as Dinsey+

Not only do I not think this will be true in the near future, I’m not sure it’s true now. Didn’t Disney announce in July that they are going to scale back production on Star Wars content? Is that what you do when the numbers are adding up?

I can’t stress enough that I’m not talking about whether the shows are good or interesting to you, or whether they require homework in order to enjoy. I’m talking about what inevitably happens to a franchise when too much of its new content depends on people already liking a character or callback.

And I did not say or mean ‘when some of its new content depends on people already liking its old content.’ I said, ‘when too much’ of it does. When the universe stops offering frequent on-ramps that tempt new viewers. Other people will increasingly not be interested in trying it out. Its draw will continue to shrink…and that will have ramifications for the ability to get interesting projects off the ground.

This is not an argument that Asoka the show should not exist. This is an argument that the lineup should not be “movie about Han Solo, show about Obi-Wan, show about Boba Fett, show about Ahsoka, movie about Lando…”

They need to place far more fresh, novel stories in between those “you like this person” projects, and they need to emphasize those fresh content projects more.

McParadigm wrote:the lineup should not be “movie about Han Solo, show about Obi-Wan, show about Boba Fett, show about Ahsoka, movie about Lando…”

They need to place far more fresh, novel stories in between those “you like this person” projects, and they need to emphasize those fresh content projects more.

I do get this point of view, and for the most part when they've done the latter, it has been successful. Rogue One is by far the best thing since the original trilogy. Mandalorian is popular, even if it has declined in quality over the seasons, and Andor was the best thing since Rogue One (although it rose from the ashes of R1, so there is a little bit of callback going on here).

They should definitely try some new stories, and I think they are dipping their toes into that a little bit with some of the planned projects, namely the High Republic stuff.

I think she show looks great, I'm just not engaged in the story. I'm not sure why.

epilogue wrote:

Ensign9 wrote:Lots of bitching from critics that have never watched Rebels. The latest episode of The Watch was essentially just Andy and Chris whining for 30 minutes.

I sympathize with the feeling a "mass market" show shouldn't require homework but I wouldn't want Filoni dumbing it down. Go watch Rebels, you hacks.

Does CR ever pronounce Ahsoka's name correctly in that 30 mins?

My #1 complaint with The Ringer podcast network is the complete lack of real-time fact checking (inclusive of pronunciations — God help me if Simmons mispronounces “subsequent” one more time) by each show’s producer.

Ensign9 wrote:

epilogue wrote:

Ensign9 wrote:Lots of bitching from critics that have never watched Rebels. The latest episode of The Watch was essentially just Andy and Chris whining for 30 minutes.

I sympathize with the feeling a "mass market" show shouldn't require homework but I wouldn't want Filoni dumbing it down. Go watch Rebels, you hacks.

Does CR ever pronounce Ahsoka's name correctly in that 30 mins?

My #1 complaint with The Ringer podcast network is the complete lack of real-time fact checking (inclusive of pronunciations — God help me if Simmons mispronounces “subsequent” one more time) by each show’s producer.

I actually kind of like that. Makes it seem more conversational and less "produced".

Monkey_Driven wrote:

Ensign9 wrote:

epilogue wrote:

Ensign9 wrote:Lots of bitching from critics that have never watched Rebels. The latest episode of The Watch was essentially just Andy and Chris whining for 30 minutes.

I sympathize with the feeling a "mass market" show shouldn't require homework but I wouldn't want Filoni dumbing it down. Go watch Rebels, you hacks.

Does CR ever pronounce Ahsoka's name correctly in that 30 mins?

My #1 complaint with The Ringer podcast network is the complete lack of real-time fact checking (inclusive of pronunciations — God help me if Simmons mispronounces “subsequent” one more time) by each show’s producer.

I actually kind of like that. Makes it seem more conversational and less "produced".

It makes me want to punch Bill in the face.

I fuckin hate that so many millions of people depend on podcasts and YouTube channels to inform and direct their opinion on Star Wars.

These people are making boatloads of money off it. They’re always going to have the most controversial and intentionally wrong take, in order to generate revenue.

It’s grim as all fuck

dimejinky99 wrote:I fuckin hate that so many millions of people depend on podcasts and YouTube channels to inform and direct their opinion on Star Wars.

These people are making boatloads of money off it. They’re always going to have the most controversial and intentionally wrong take, in order to generate revenue.

It’s grim as all fuck