Red Mosquito

McParadigm wrote: the US doesn't install a puppet government

Greetings from South America

McParadigm wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

digster wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

digster wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:On the other hand, major powers routinely play these games with their rivals, and the fact that we've become so lazy at defending against them under our recent administrations is pretty alarming. Russia attempting to influence the election shouldn't be news. Our incompetence and susceptibility should be.

Eh, kind of. I don't really recall a country ever trying to tip the scales in one direction, though. Should this news be true, Russia either was able to have an impact on our elections for the first time on this scale and will continue to throw monkey wrenches in the future, or they saw Trump as a unique opportunity for them, in a way that previous presidential elections have not been.

You guys recall that the US has installed puppet regimes in other countries, through violence, on numerous occasions, right?

Sure...I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said. I should have said I was specifically referring to US presidential elections.

Sorry, wasn't trying to be critical of you and Burt, more just trying to make the point that all the politicians' hand-wringing over this Russian thing strikes me as fairly silly given our own country's past attempts at global control.

It's not fairly silly. Precedence alone does not equate to conventionality. Its like saying "eh, it's pretty silly to complain about being invaded. We invade countries all the time."

And yet this remains my primary outlook. Even after 9/11, I felt like "This is a tragedy that other countries experience all the time." Of course I have empathy for people who suffer in any capacity, and the hostile takeover or hijacking of any country's sovereignty by another is awful. But it's not like it's going to change in my lifetime. So yea, unfortunately, I do sort of view this as conventional, business-as-usual stuff.

I understand, and you're right. But the scope is different. The US uses espionage to control elections, absolutely. And so do China and Russia and England. but China doesn't take hold of England's government, and the US doesn't install a puppet government in China. One major power controlling or deeply influencing another major power...or ANY nation having a substantial foothold in the workings of what is still in many ways the most influential nation in earth, is about more than one nation's people and rights.

I'm nit talkin about whether it's less criminal or dispicable or whatever somewhere else...I'm talking about the scope of worldwide impact.

Yea, I can't argue with that point.

theplatypus wrote:

McParadigm wrote: the US doesn't install a puppet government

Greetings from South America

Yeah when you divorce it from the rest of the sentence it really does look like a completely different statement.

I don't think it changes much going forward. This isn't even a new narrative. The establishment says Russia tried to influence the election in Trump's favor. So what else is new?

His followers will forgive a lot, but one thing they won't forgive is him flip flopping on immigration, and all signs point to him doing just that. His reaction to "lock her up" chants was incredible, but they'll get over that. On immigration, though, he's going to get Mussolinied at the front gate of the White House if he keeps that up.

That labor pick is a bigger deal.

McParadigm wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

McParadigm wrote: the US doesn't install a puppet government

Greetings from South America

Yeah when you divorce

What?

theplatypus wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

McParadigm wrote: the US doesn't install a puppet government

Greetings from South America

Yeah when you divorce

What?

I had a good line to come after this, but I won't post it here, because it would poke fun at the wrong RMer. Maybe I'll just PM Jorge.

McParadigm wrote:Been a growing amount of this type of stuff from hardline Trunp fans:

He's handling it well though...

This is particularly disturbing. State has always been the buffer between the corporate aristocracy and foreign leaders... guess they just cut out the middleman. Obama at least title them "advisors" to keep up the charade.

theplatypus wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

McParadigm wrote: the US doesn't install a puppet government

Greetings from South America

Yeah when you divorce

What?

Just trying to suck you into my worldview.

one wonders who else has things on their hard drives

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/world ... .html?_r=0

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... e-gop.html

“We need a new election,” said Bob Baer, a former CIA operative who himself used to interfere in the affairs of foreign governments. “This is a constitutional crisis. It’s unprecedented. If the CIA had hacked and steered a democratic election in a foreign country, say France or Germany, that country would demand a new election. No question,” he said in an interview.

“You’re making an assumption that Trump will respond to kompromat and not to something else, such as his business interests in Russia. He clearly has a blind spot on the country. You can be manipulated by the Chekists in many ways,” the source said, using the catch-all term for Russia spies, “not just through blackmail. We also don’t know what is in the RNC emails.”

Andrei Soldatov, co-author of Red Web, a book about Russia’s cybersecurity and use of the Internet to silence dissent, thinks that the likelier target of Moscow is not Trump but rather his now powerful party. “I doubt there can be any kompromat on Trump which can hurt him,” Soldatov said. “But the Republican Party is a different story.”

More from that:

For Soldatov, the threatened publication of documents confirming rumors or alleged ties between Trump’s cabinet picks and the Russian government could be a useful tool to keep the administration in check. “Remember the story about a former Defense Intelligence Agency chief giving interviews to [Russian state propaganda channel] RT and being paid for that?” Soldatov said, referring to Flynn, who is now Trump’s national security advisor. “It would be bad enough simply to produce documentary evidence confirming things we already knew.”

Chances the CIA will have a "deranged lone gunman" deployed soon?

lol

I mean, shut up Wesley. But yeah, the silence speaks volumes.

McParadigm wrote:lol

From my FB feed...I have to not FB anymore.

McParadigm wrote:

I mean, shut up Wesley. But yeah, the silence speaks volumes.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... story.html

Maybe they aren't twittering fast enough for him.

Bi_3 wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

I mean, shut up Wesley. But yeah, the silence speaks volumes.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... story.html

Maybe they aren't twittering fast enough for him.

This is somewhat hopeful. If the GOP has to spend an inordinate amount of time policing their boss, at least that will cut into their available man hours for denying peoples' rights and liberties and destroying our planet.

The two Republican senators mentioned in the article as being gung-ho on investigating the issue is McCain and Graham, which are about the only two people I would expect. The Senate Majority Whip, meanwhile, tweets this:

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) said Saturday that fresh reports of Russian interference in the U.S. election are “hardly news.”

“All this ‘news’ of Russian hacking: it has been going on for years. Serious, but hardly news,” Cornyn wrote on Twitter.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/30 ... ardly-news

He later expressed support for Graham, but we'll see. I think it's hard to argue that Republicans are not holding their tongues on this. Maybe that will change later on, but it's just all the more notable considering how seeing Russia as The Great Danger was a central tenet of Republican foreign policy seemingly yesterday.

I mean, could you imagine the shitfit that would have occurred if it came out after Obama's re-election that Russia had hacked RNC e-mails to attempt to sway the election to Obama in 2012? Republicans would have come at the White House with torches.

tragabigzanda wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

I mean, shut up Wesley. But yeah, the silence speaks volumes.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... story.html

Maybe they aren't twittering fast enough for him.

This is somewhat hopeful. If the GOP has to spend an inordinate amount of time policing their boss, at least that will cut into their available man hours for denying peoples' rights and liberties and destroying our planet.

I am skeptical it will anything more than theater, but they are not silent about it, and honestly given the amount of questionable news recently.. they should take their time and have a thoughtful and measured response to reports. Stop laughing.