Red Mosquito

It is what it is.

At least we aren't at the point where we are bashing some dude's reaction to his wife dying.

broken iris wrote:At least we aren't at the point where we are bashing some dude's reaction to his wife dying.

Wow, did that really happen?

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:

broken iris wrote:At least we aren't at the point where we are bashing some dude's reaction to his wife dying.

Wow, did that really happen?

It happened here

stip wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:

broken iris wrote:At least we aren't at the point where we are bashing some dude's reaction to his wife dying.

Wow, did that really happen?

It happened here

I don't know the context of it, and I'm not sure that I want to, but that sounds pretty sad.

'Play comeback at wrigley'

Ah righto, I have seen references to that here.

A quote from 2009, before Backspacer was released:

Pearl Jam are currently hard at work on their 9th studio album with longtime producer Brendan O’Brien. Vedder told Rolling Stone, “at this point, I think we’re willing to let somebody cut the songs up a little bit. In the past, Brendan would say, ‘It’s a great song, but I think you should do it in a different key’, and we’d say no. But now that we’ve heard Bruce [Springsteen] has listened to his suggestions, I think we will too.”

Always thought this quote was interesting. Bruce has credited O'Brien with his prolific output in the 00s. It gave us some great albums (The Rising and Magic...Magic is a masterpiece actually) but the 'hardcore' fans are quite critical of O'Brien and blame him for smoothing over a lot of the edginess in Bruce's music. Many want him to go back to a 'live' sound like The River or Born In The USA (without the obnoxious 80s synths, of course). This quote from a Pitchfork review sums it up well:

If Magic revisits the subject matter of previous career crests, it unfortunately recalls The Rising in its sound: Brendan O'Brien returns to the producer's seat, once again shuffling most of the E Street Band to the music's margins and focusing his attention squarely on the Boss. In addition to drenching slower songs like "Your Own Worst Enemy" and "Devil's Arcade" in melodramatic and totally unnecessary strings, the producer too often glosses over the creaks and wear in Springsteen's voice-- like air-brushing a model's face to look younger-- when it's the imperfections that give him his particular authority. Springsteen should sound more like Tom Waits, less like 3 Doors Down.

Bits in bold sound like exactly the same criticism as Backspacer. We know there was conflict between O'Brien and PJ in the 90s - how to record Betterman, "too fucking poppy", locking him outside of the recording studios. Now, he takes an active role and the band listen to him.

Not sure where this post is going, and it's not meant to be yet another criticism of latter day PJ. I like Backspacer, actually, and I quite like Brendan O'Brien. But I think it's interesting that A) O'Brien's percieved 'failings' aren't exclusive to Pearl Jam and B) Eddie and the guys actually acknowledge that they listen to O'Brien now, and allow him to - possibly? - dictate how the songs are recorded.

Food for thought.

I've listened to the two new b-sides. I obviously love them and am baffled that they still play this stuff, at home, in private, but decide that nobody is going to want to hear it. I can't fathom it. My favourite band in the word have not lost their talent. They are simply deluded now.

harmless wrote:I've listened to the two new b-sides. I obviously love them and am baffled that they still play this stuff, at home, in private, but decide that nobody is going to want to hear it. I can't fathom it. My favourite band in the word have not lost their talent. They are simply deluded now.

Well, it probably doesn't help that the pit/fan club/media is filled with people whose sycophantic approach to the band and the 10c hides any suggestion of an alternative approach to their post Riot Act output. I'm not suggesting the band should act to appease it's detractors, just that sometimes it helps to take a step back and make sure the people around you are being honest (not just fearing for their jobs) and you aren't just coasting along with what is comfortable and easy. Life and art get really boring, really quickly that way.

broken iris wrote:

harmless wrote:I've listened to the two new b-sides. I obviously love them and am baffled that they still play this stuff, at home, in private, but decide that nobody is going to want to hear it. I can't fathom it. My favourite band in the word have not lost their talent. They are simply deluded now.

Well, it probably doesn't help that the pit/fan club/media is filled with people whose sycophantic approach to the band and the 10c hides any suggestion of an alternative approach to their post Riot Act output. I'm not suggesting the band should act to appease it's detractors, just that sometimes it helps to take a step back and make sure the people around you are being honest (not just fearing for their jobs) and you aren't just coasting along with what is comfortable and easy. Life and art get really boring, really quickly that way.

I watched the video of Nothingman from Wrigley. It just showed me how blind Ed is. He clearly wants to make songs that work live so they have been forcing them with catchy melodies and fabricated hooks and "moments". Then here I am watching a video of the whole crowd singing along to a slow, atmospheric and somewhat plodding Nothingman. Why? Because it is a good song.

Fame can be a harsh mistress.

Thejambi wrote:

broken iris wrote:

harmless wrote:I've listened to the two new b-sides. I obviously love them and am baffled that they still play this stuff, at home, in private, but decide that nobody is going to want to hear it. I can't fathom it. My favourite band in the word have not lost their talent. They are simply deluded now.

Well, it probably doesn't help that the pit/fan club/media is filled with people whose sycophantic approach to the band and the 10c hides any suggestion of an alternative approach to their post Riot Act output. I'm not suggesting the band should act to appease it's detractors, just that sometimes it helps to take a step back and make sure the people around you are being honest (not just fearing for their jobs) and you aren't just coasting along with what is comfortable and easy. Life and art get really boring, really quickly that way.

I watched the video of Nothingman from Wrigley. It just showed me how blind Ed is. He clearly wants to make songs that work live so they have been forcing them with catchy melodies and fabricated hooks and "moments". Then here I am watching a video of the whole crowd singing along to a slow, atmospheric and somewhat plodding Nothingman. Why? Because it is a good song.

Yeah but even then (and I knew this would happen very early on), all of the poppy 'tags' and the covers and the audience participation, it all helped to cement this 'digestible little package' idea that every song is supposed to meet. So even the great, nuanced songs from old have been made into cheesy audience participations. It started happening a long time ago and I think some of us feared it because we saw where it might lead, but we've kept our mouths shut hoping that the worst wouldn't happen.

Thejambi wrote: (Ed) clearly wants to make songs that work live so they have been forcing them with catchy melodies and fabricated hooks and "moments".

This is exactly right. It shows up in the finished products, as most of the post-Riot Act mid- and up-tempo songs have featured cutesy melodies and hooks. It's deliberate.

Given the intense fawning over the two new unreleased tracks, what do people who claim the negativity on this board is reflexive and all-consuming?

--- wrote:Given the intense fawning over the two new unreleased tracks, what do people who claim the negativity on this board is reflexive and all-consuming?

the positivity towards these songs is just another opportunity to bash modern day PJ, it's negativity in disguise

Heathen wrote:

--- wrote:Given the intense fawning over the two new unreleased tracks, what do people who claim the negativity on this board is reflexive and all-consuming?

the positivity towards these songs is just another opportunity to bash modern day PJ, it's negativity in disguise

Nope, it's definitive proof there is every reason to bash modern day PJ. We were right all along.

harmless wrote:

Heathen wrote:

--- wrote:Given the intense fawning over the two new unreleased tracks, what do people who claim the negativity on this board is reflexive and all-consuming?

the positivity towards these songs is just another opportunity to bash modern day PJ, it's negativity in disguise

Nope, it's definitive proof there is every reason to bash modern day PJ. We were right all along.

Sounds like it's a great reason to pat yourself on the back.

philpritchard wrote:

harmless wrote:

Heathen wrote:

--- wrote:Given the intense fawning over the two new unreleased tracks, what do people who claim the negativity on this board is reflexive and all-consuming?

the positivity towards these songs is just another opportunity to bash modern day PJ, it's negativity in disguise

Nope, it's definitive proof there is every reason to bash modern day PJ. We were right all along.

Sounds like it's a great reason to pat yourself on the back.

Witty. 1 point to you, 0 to me.

harmless wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

harmless wrote:

Heathen wrote:

--- wrote:Given the intense fawning over the two new unreleased tracks, what do people who claim the negativity on this board is reflexive and all-consuming?

the positivity towards these songs is just another opportunity to bash modern day PJ, it's negativity in disguise

Nope, it's definitive proof there is every reason to bash modern day PJ. We were right all along.

Sounds like it's a great reason to pat yourself on the back.

Witty. 1 point to you, 0 to me.

Boom, roasted.