Red Mosquito

yeah, I really think that Lightning Bolt shows that all the tools are still there for a classic album (not career defining, but still classic). it just needs someone to push it over the edge, or at the very least not hold it back.

Also, today would be a great day for everyone to not just talk about lightning bolt, but actually listen to it!

LAL Lightning Bolt?

I'm about to just now. I've not been feeling the urge because well I've been listening to a lot of much better stuff.

The important thing is you met your 'take one shot at lightning bolt' per page quota early on. Now the pressure is off

stip wrote:The important thing is you met your 'take one shot at lightning bolt' per page quota early on. Now the pressure is off

Hilarious. Same thought went through my head.

Well, you know, you've only got one shot, do not miss your chance to blow, 'cus opportunity knocks once in a lifetime, yo.

i hope someone puts him in the R+R hall of fame someday.

I agree, and I hope his induction performance is a full-length version of "Albuquerque".

Tuolumne wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:LB is still PJ's weakest album to date but there's still 5 or 6 pretty good tracks on there.

And to the "Sirens" haters: Is it really that far off from "Betterman" or "Black" in terms of earnestness and sentiment? Not really. Those songs are just classics so they get a free pass. A PJ noob would find Sirens no different from those tunes.

Yep. This is still the same band that made Ten. The message board types (I'm generalizing here) seem to like the "weird" side of PJ, but a song like Sirens is very much in line with who PJ has been since day 1. I believe the fans of the "weird" PJ would hate Ten if they went back in time and would only like Oceans and Master/Slave and would be pining for that to be their whole career. In fact, during the Ten days, there was a huge contingent of music snobs that thought this exact thing. That Ten was just generic rock. I think PJ has just become comfortable with who they are, and they don't have this yearning to prove that they have this so-called idiosyncratic 'interesting' experimental side to them. They just want to make whatever comes out of them without being self-consious about it.

Not to belabor it, but I've never really understood why some people just can't seem to understand that most people like what they like because they think it's the best. Vitalogy through Binaural isn't their "weird/cool/dark/whatever meaningless adjective you want to use" period, at least not to me. It's just the period where they made their best work.

digster wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:LB is still PJ's weakest album to date but there's still 5 or 6 pretty good tracks on there.

And to the "Sirens" haters: Is it really that far off from "Betterman" or "Black" in terms of earnestness and sentiment? Not really. Those songs are just classics so they get a free pass. A PJ noob would find Sirens no different from those tunes.

Yep. This is still the same band that made Ten. The message board types (I'm generalizing here) seem to like the "weird" side of PJ, but a song like Sirens is very much in line with who PJ has been since day 1. I believe the fans of the "weird" PJ would hate Ten if they went back in time and would only like Oceans and Master/Slave and would be pining for that to be their whole career. In fact, during the Ten days, there was a huge contingent of music snobs that thought this exact thing. That Ten was just generic rock. I think PJ has just become comfortable with who they are, and they don't have this yearning to prove that they have this so-called idiosyncratic 'interesting' experimental side to them. They just want to make whatever comes out of them without being self-consious about it.

Not to belabor it, but I've never really understood why some people just can't seem to understand that most people like what they like because they think it's the best. Vitalogy through Binaural isn't their "weird/cool/dark/whatever meaningless adjective you want to use" period, at least not to me. It's just the period where they made their best work.

An attempt to figure out what it is about that time period that made the work the best?

i think its just easy to say people who dont like sirens like pearl jam's "weird" songs. my favorite pj songs are yellow ledbetter, porch and in my tree, not exactly "weird". i dont like sirens b/c i think its a shitty song. i dont like how the vocals kinda follow the guitar. i dont like that its overly hook-y. i dont like the ending harmonizing vocals. i love cheese in food, but usually not in my music, and this is overflowing with cheese.

Tuolumne wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:LB is still PJ's weakest album to date but there's still 5 or 6 pretty good tracks on there.

And to the "Sirens" haters: Is it really that far off from "Betterman" or "Black" in terms of earnestness and sentiment? Not really. Those songs are just classics so they get a free pass. A PJ noob would find Sirens no different from those tunes.

Yep. This is still the same band that made Ten. The message board types (I'm generalizing here) seem to like the "weird" side of PJ, but a song like Sirens is very much in line with who PJ has been since day 1. I believe the fans of the "weird" PJ would hate Ten if they went back in time and would only like Oceans and Master/Slave and would be pining for that to be their whole career. In fact, during the Ten days, there was a huge contingent of music snobs that thought this exact thing. That Ten was just generic rock. I think PJ has just become comfortable with who they are, and they don't have this yearning to prove that they have this so-called idiosyncratic 'interesting' experimental side to them. They just want to make whatever comes out of them without being self-consious about it.

It's a continuum & it's an evolution. Ten begat Vs., which led to Vitalogy and the middle records. If they released Ten today with all the vigor and energy as existed when it was released, then it would still be well received and loved. The problem is that the core strength that made the "cock-rock" / "straight-forward, classic" rock sound of Ten appealing is just gone now. They literally couldn't do at 50 what they could do at 25.

And, as to the question of Sirens being similar to Black, there many, many elements that distinguish these songs significantly (warehouse just provided a good list above), but I will give you one lyric from each to illustrate one of these differences.

Sirens
Let me catch my breath to breathe
And reach across the bend
Just to know we're safe
I am a grateful man

Black
And now my bitter hands cradle broken glass of what was everything
All the pictures have all been washed in black, tattooed everything...

stip wrote:yeah, I really think that Lightning Bolt shows that all the tools are still there for a classic album (not career defining, but still classic). it just needs someone to push it over the edge, or at the very least not hold it back.

I think it needs someone with an above average talent in "turning ideas into songs" and even more importantly are able to see above the "cool" part they write for themselves. I hear the start of this approach to arrangements in s/t - when they all compete for attention at the same time, all the time - and B'OB only amplifies this aspect of the arrangements and does the same thing when he's part of them. I think it makes the songs sound amateurish. I think that even what is generally praised in recent Pearl Jam or is considered a sign of greater talent or imagination or varied song writing in reality isn't above a basic knowledge in music theory and is part of what is essentially part of a basic skill set if you're playing in band for a living.

hlniv wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:LB is still PJ's weakest album to date but there's still 5 or 6 pretty good tracks on there.

And to the "Sirens" haters: Is it really that far off from "Betterman" or "Black" in terms of earnestness and sentiment? Not really. Those songs are just classics so they get a free pass. A PJ noob would find Sirens no different from those tunes.

Yep. This is still the same band that made Ten. The message board types (I'm generalizing here) seem to like the "weird" side of PJ, but a song like Sirens is very much in line with who PJ has been since day 1. I believe the fans of the "weird" PJ would hate Ten if they went back in time and would only like Oceans and Master/Slave and would be pining for that to be their whole career. In fact, during the Ten days, there was a huge contingent of music snobs that thought this exact thing. That Ten was just generic rock. I think PJ has just become comfortable with who they are, and they don't have this yearning to prove that they have this so-called idiosyncratic 'interesting' experimental side to them. They just want to make whatever comes out of them without being self-consious about it.

It's a continuum & it's an evolution. Ten begat Vs., which led to Vitalogy and the middle records. If they released Ten today with all the vigor and energy as existed when it was released, then it would still be well received and loved. The problem is that the core strength that made the "cock-rock" / "straight-forward, classic" rock sound of Ten appealing is just gone now. They literally couldn't do at 50 what they could do at 25.

And, as to the question of Sirens being similar to Black, there many, many elements that distinguish these songs significantly (warehouse just provided a good list above), but I will give you one lyric from each to illustrate one of these differences.

Sirens
Let me catch my breath to breathe
And reach across the bend
Just to know we're safe
I am a grateful man

Black
And now my bitter hands cradle broken glass of what was everything
All the pictures have all been washed in black, tattooed everything...

No one is saying sirens is as good, just that the songs are similar.

Things can't be at all similar if one is better than the other!

I don't really see how they're similar other than the very superficial assessment that they're both big ballads.

stip wrote:

hlniv wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

darthvedder81 wrote:LB is still PJ's weakest album to date but there's still 5 or 6 pretty good tracks on there.

And to the "Sirens" haters: Is it really that far off from "Betterman" or "Black" in terms of earnestness and sentiment? Not really. Those songs are just classics so they get a free pass. A PJ noob would find Sirens no different from those tunes.

Yep. This is still the same band that made Ten. The message board types (I'm generalizing here) seem to like the "weird" side of PJ, but a song like Sirens is very much in line with who PJ has been since day 1. I believe the fans of the "weird" PJ would hate Ten if they went back in time and would only like Oceans and Master/Slave and would be pining for that to be their whole career. In fact, during the Ten days, there was a huge contingent of music snobs that thought this exact thing. That Ten was just generic rock. I think PJ has just become comfortable with who they are, and they don't have this yearning to prove that they have this so-called idiosyncratic 'interesting' experimental side to them. They just want to make whatever comes out of them without being self-consious about it.

It's a continuum & it's an evolution. Ten begat Vs., which led to Vitalogy and the middle records. If they released Ten today with all the vigor and energy as existed when it was released, then it would still be well received and loved. The problem is that the core strength that made the "cock-rock" / "straight-forward, classic" rock sound of Ten appealing is just gone now. They literally couldn't do at 50 what they could do at 25.

And, as to the question of Sirens being similar to Black, there many, many elements that distinguish these songs significantly (warehouse just provided a good list above), but I will give you one lyric from each to illustrate one of these differences.

Sirens
Let me catch my breath to breathe
And reach across the bend
Just to know we're safe
I am a grateful man

Black
And now my bitter hands cradle broken glass of what was everything
All the pictures have all been washed in black, tattooed everything...

No one is saying sirens is as good, just that the songs are similar.

I am saying the songs are not similar. And there are some folks who are saying Sirens is good, btw.

They are only similar in that they are slow ballads performed by the band Pearl Jam. Beyond that, I just don't see much similarity.

Red Mosquito and 1/2 Full are similar. Black and Sirens are not similar.

theplatypus wrote:I don't really see how they're similar other than the very superficial assessment that they're both big ballads.

I've described it before and can't be bothered today I'm tired

I think Sirens is good. But I never said it's as good as Black.