Red Mosquito

I get why people want Medicare for All and I would love a system where we didn’t have to worry about healthcare. But it is such a seismic shift that it just isn’t going to happen anytime soon. These candidates promising this completely ignore the fact that it’s going to be Congress that ends up voting for it. Do people really believe that Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders will wave a magic wand if they became president and that’s that?

*snort*

meatwad wrote:I get why people want Medicare for All and I would love a system where we didn’t have to worry about healthcare. But it is such a seismic shift that it just isn’t going to happen anytime soon. These candidates promising this completely ignore the fact that it’s going to be Congress that ends up voting for it. Do people really believe that Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders will wave a magic wand if they became president and that’s that?

The very same drugs and treatments are available in Europe and are mostly paid for by governments

My pal just last month fell from a height in Spain and he’s paralyzed in a hospital. He’s coming home and faces further surgery on his spine and pelvis. It’ll be covered.
Government pay it.

The world won’t end when you give free healthcare.

It’s just fuckin big pharma looking for endless profit.

It won’t costs the average joe at all it’s just greed.

So sad you guys don’t see that.

meatwad wrote:I get why people want Medicare for All and I would love a system where we didn’t have to worry about healthcare. But it is such a seismic shift that it just isn’t going to happen anytime soon. These candidates promising this completely ignore the fact that it’s going to be Congress that ends up voting for it. Do people really believe that Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders will wave a magic wand if they became president and that’s that?

Flip the Senate then

verb_to_trust wrote:

meatwad wrote:I get why people want Medicare for All and I would love a system where we didn’t have to worry about healthcare. But it is such a seismic shift that it just isn’t going to happen anytime soon. These candidates promising this completely ignore the fact that it’s going to be Congress that ends up voting for it. Do people really believe that Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders will wave a magic wand if they became president and that’s that?

Flip the Senate then

Yeah I’m sure newly elected red-state senators will jump right on board with Medicare for All.

McParadigm wrote:Starting to really appreciate how badly Warren blew it today.

Chokeahontas

meatwad wrote:I get why people want Medicare for All and I would love a system where we didn’t have to worry about healthcare. But it is such a seismic shift that it just isn’t going to happen anytime soon. These candidates promising this completely ignore the fact that it’s going to be Congress that ends up voting for it. Do people really believe that Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders will wave a magic wand if they became president and that’s that?

You'd think people would learn this lesson after the absolute clusterfuck Obama went through with the ACA, but people have short memories.

meatwad wrote:I get why people want Medicare for All and I would love a system where we didn’t have to worry about healthcare. But it is such a seismic shift that it just isn’t going to happen anytime soon. These candidates promising this completely ignore the fact that it’s going to be Congress that ends up voting for it. Do people really believe that Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders will wave a magic wand if they became president and that’s that?

People believed Donald Trump would wave a magic deal wand and Mexico would pay for a border wall. People believed Donald Trump would wave a magic racist wand and all blacks, Hispanics (or Mexicans), and Muslims would disappear from America. People believed Donald Trump would wave a magic money wand and the economy would be doing so good that everyone would be rich. People believed Donald Trump would wave a magic healthcare wand and terrible Obamacare would be replaced by Trump's plan that we never saw (but it was the best plan).

Green Habit wrote:

meatwad wrote:I get why people want Medicare for All and I would love a system where we didn’t have to worry about healthcare. But it is such a seismic shift that it just isn’t going to happen anytime soon. These candidates promising this completely ignore the fact that it’s going to be Congress that ends up voting for it. Do people really believe that Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders will wave a magic wand if they became president and that’s that?

You'd think people would learn this lesson after the absolute clusterfuck Obama went through with the ACA, but people have short memories.

Obama had a much bigger majority than any of today's candidates are likely to have. And he still struggled. I understand the above argument, but it's not clear to me how any other plan has any better chance of going somewhere. The GOP isn't going to go along with any of it. Do people think that Pete or Biden's plans can pass "as is?" If you think a glide-path option is the best solution, is that what you bring to the negotiating table? Obama lost the option because there wasn't anything to the left of it to compromise on. I don't see how that's different with the plans today, outside of the Warren/Bernie plans which have a lot of room to compromise and still end up with some sort of medicare expansion. Forcing a compromise down from the uber-ambitious (and probably unrealistic) Bernie/Warren plan(s) seems worthy of a try, rather than the approach the Dems have taken the last... 30 years, which is to pitch some wonky, pragmatic plan that has what Dems think are the compromises already baked in.

The ACA did a lot of good things, and clearly we've learned that once you give people something, it's just about impossible to repeal something like it. But to me the lesson there is that even when your plan resembles what used to be the GOP alternative to single-payer, it is going to be challenged and chopped up as much as possible by the opposing side(s).

Green Habit wrote:

meatwad wrote:I get why people want Medicare for All and I would love a system where we didn’t have to worry about healthcare. But it is such a seismic shift that it just isn’t going to happen anytime soon. These candidates promising this completely ignore the fact that it’s going to be Congress that ends up voting for it. Do people really believe that Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders will wave a magic wand if they became president and that’s that?

You'd think people would learn this lesson after the absolute clusterfuck Obama went through with the ACA, but people have short memories.

I don't believe the candidates can do most of the things they claim without Congress, but seeing their plan and their goals at least gives me some idea of where they're trying to go.

Trump couldn't eliminate ACA, but he did manage to do a lot of damage by not advertising or running it poorly or not spending or by whom they sue or by not defending parts that were brought up in court. Not to mention being there to guide, bully, and sign off on anything coming out of Congress.

ACA is here, but it's a sloppy mess of a crying, bleeding program.

FWIW, I think the swing state situation is a smidge less rosy for Trump than the poll being referred to here indicates. And frankly, even the numbers posted in that poll aren’t great for him. But this is still pretty wild.

McParadigm wrote:FWIW, I think the swing state situation is a smidge less rosy for Trump than the poll being referred to here indicates. And frankly, even the numbers posted in that poll aren’t great for him. But this is still pretty wild.

only electoral college results matter

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Spoiler: show

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only electoral college results matter

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"Let's Win this one for Taubman!"

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only electoral college results matter

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only electoral college results matter

Didn't Trump hold some giant MAGA rally for Matt Bevin? Hold that L, bitch

verb_to_trust wrote:Didn't Trump hold some giant MAGA rally for Matt Bevin?

PhatJ, your thoughts on tonight