Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

stupidmop wrote: I dont mind it in big wave because its mostly a silly song and if you try to sing it 'a' crustacean it fucks up the whole line.

On that last point: it's still kind of an interesting choice considering that Ed hasn't been above fucking up a line's meter to fit extra words. It's pretty crass how he does it.

Yeah. Ed, please stop 1) cramming too many words into a line and 2) using not enough of them to make sense. The English language kind of dictates the amount of words generally considered appropriate in any given sentence. (See what I did there? The "kind of" here is deliberately superfluous.)

the important thing is that if you add them all up together it is precisely the right amount of words.

All in all, I don't mind calling it a win for the continual advancement and progression of the English language.

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

pnjguy wrote:I like the artwork, i really do, but it has no affect on if i think the music is any better than i thought before i saw the artwork.

Unfortunately for me it does. I know, it's a tick I have. To me the album is the entire package, and that's a good part of why S/T and Backspacer didn't hang together for me.

it adds to the total context in which you hear the music, in the same way that attaching a song to a particular experience changes the way you hear it, for better or worse.

Yup. For Backspacer, I just wanted more contrasts because of that, you know? Neon/comic upon neon/comic was just too sickly. I wonder how happy I'd have been if they'd stuck with The Fixer single artwork as the album concept. They could've added the "typewriter button" font, it might've been nice and meant that we didn't immediately think "cartoon" when we heard the songs. (Although you're better than me at not thinking that...)

harmless wrote:

pnjguy wrote:I like the artwork, i really do, but it has no affect on if i think the music is any better than i thought before i saw the artwork.

Unfortunately for me it does. I know, it's a tick I have. To me the album is the entire package, and that's a good part of why S/T and Backspacer didn't hang together for me.

So you'll like the album if there are 12 future days-like songs on it just because you like the artwork? My point is, I'm not going to put on Lightening Bolt 2 years from now because of the artwork. It's nice to have cool artwork, but at the end of the day, it doesn't mean much. Now, if it was a concept album, with a story behind it, that's totally different.

When does the next one arrive? 1pm EST?

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

pnjguy wrote:I like the artwork, i really do, but it has no affect on if i think the music is any better than i thought before i saw the artwork.

Unfortunately for me it does. I know, it's a tick I have. To me the album is the entire package, and that's a good part of why S/T and Backspacer didn't hang together for me.

it adds to the total context in which you hear the music, in the same way that attaching a song to a particular experience changes the way you hear it, for better or worse.

Maybe initially, but i don't know how that has any lasting power.

pnjguy wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

pnjguy wrote:I like the artwork, i really do, but it has no affect on if i think the music is any better than i thought before i saw the artwork.

Unfortunately for me it does. I know, it's a tick I have. To me the album is the entire package, and that's a good part of why S/T and Backspacer didn't hang together for me.

it adds to the total context in which you hear the music, in the same way that attaching a song to a particular experience changes the way you hear it, for better or worse.

Maybe initially, but i don't know how that has any lasting power.

This whole idea is similar to that of music videos, which is why a lot of old school artists didn't like doing it (but of course, did it anyway). Actively attaching images to a song for the listener instead of allowing the listener to attach their own.

I know I see parts of the Jeremy video every time I hear it.

Images man. They're strong.

pnjguy wrote:

harmless wrote:

pnjguy wrote:I like the artwork, i really do, but it has no affect on if i think the music is any better than i thought before i saw the artwork.

Unfortunately for me it does. I know, it's a tick I have. To me the album is the entire package, and that's a good part of why S/T and Backspacer didn't hang together for me.

So you'll like the album if there are 12 future days-like songs on it just because you like the artwork? My point is, I'm not going to put on Lightening Bolt 2 years from now because of the artwork. It's nice to have cool artwork, but at the end of the day, it doesn't mean much. Now, if it was a concept album, with a story behind it, that's totally different.

There's a wide gulf between "liking 12 Future Days just because you like the artwork" and being able to appreciate the songs more thanks to the context of great artwork. It all helps to paint a psychological picture of what the songs mean and represent. If you don't think that deeply about it, that's fine, but you don't need to undermine the point of making artwork for an album. Why make artwork at all? Some people would argue you don't need it; it's just music man! I don't agree. Pearl Jam is represented by every creative decision they make.

Having said all this, no, I will not be playing the album years from now just because of the artwork. But I might try a tiny bit harder to appreciate the songs and let them grow on me for a while. If I hated the artwork, chances are I'd be put off from square one, and I'm glad there's no danger of that. The artwork's cool, now we can just evaluate the music.

pnjguy wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

pnjguy wrote:I like the artwork, i really do, but it has no affect on if i think the music is any better than i thought before i saw the artwork.

Unfortunately for me it does. I know, it's a tick I have. To me the album is the entire package, and that's a good part of why S/T and Backspacer didn't hang together for me.

it adds to the total context in which you hear the music, in the same way that attaching a song to a particular experience changes the way you hear it, for better or worse.

Maybe initially, but i don't know how that has any lasting power.

You hadn't mentioned lasting power when I replied the first time.

Album artwork ALWAYS shapes what I picture in my head when I listen to the music, for better or worse.

Like, for Binaural, the songs take on a sense of floating through space amidst images like the Hourglass Nebula. I think it works well for those songs.

evenslow wrote:Album artwork ALWAYS shapes what I picture in my head when I listen to the music, for better or worse.

Like, for Binaural, the songs take on a sense of floating through space amidst images like the Hourglass Nebula. I think it works well for those songs.

Do you think of zombies when you listen to Parachutes?

We were kind of excited by the zombie references in The Fixer when it first hit. We were trying to make it feel cooler because of the artwork. Even now, the artwork makes it less embarrassing.

harmless wrote:

pnjguy wrote:

harmless wrote:

pnjguy wrote:I like the artwork, i really do, but it has no affect on if i think the music is any better than i thought before i saw the artwork.

Unfortunately for me it does. I know, it's a tick I have. To me the album is the entire package, and that's a good part of why S/T and Backspacer didn't hang together for me.

So you'll like the album if there are 12 future days-like songs on it just because you like the artwork? My point is, I'm not going to put on Lightening Bolt 2 years from now because of the artwork. It's nice to have cool artwork, but at the end of the day, it doesn't mean much. Now, if it was a concept album, with a story behind it, that's totally different.

There's a wide gulf between "liking 12 Future Days just because you like the artwork" and being able to appreciate the songs more thanks to the context of great artwork. It all helps to paint a psychological picture of what the songs mean and represent. If you don't think that deeply about it, that's fine, but you don't need to undermine the point of making artwork for an album. Why make artwork at all? Some people would argue you don't need it; it's just music man! I don't agree. Pearl Jam is represented by every creative decision they make.

Having said all this, no, I will not be playing the album years from now just because of the artwork. But I might try a tiny bit harder to appreciate the songs and let them grow on me for a while. If I hated the artwork, chances are I'd be put off from square one, and I'm glad there's no danger of that. The artwork's cool, now we can just evaluate the music.

I'm not undermining the point for making artwork, but I believe it shouldn't be a material factor on your opinion of the album or that it would make someone get put off from square one. Just curious, what's your opinion on the music of Mozart, Bach, Lead Belly etc. since they have no artwork? I guess for me, the music is more than enough imagery for me.

pnjguy wrote:

harmless wrote:

pnjguy wrote:

harmless wrote:

pnjguy wrote:I like the artwork, i really do, but it has no affect on if i think the music is any better than i thought before i saw the artwork.

Unfortunately for me it does. I know, it's a tick I have. To me the album is the entire package, and that's a good part of why S/T and Backspacer didn't hang together for me.

So you'll like the album if there are 12 future days-like songs on it just because you like the artwork? My point is, I'm not going to put on Lightening Bolt 2 years from now because of the artwork. It's nice to have cool artwork, but at the end of the day, it doesn't mean much. Now, if it was a concept album, with a story behind it, that's totally different.

There's a wide gulf between "liking 12 Future Days just because you like the artwork" and being able to appreciate the songs more thanks to the context of great artwork. It all helps to paint a psychological picture of what the songs mean and represent. If you don't think that deeply about it, that's fine, but you don't need to undermine the point of making artwork for an album. Why make artwork at all? Some people would argue you don't need it; it's just music man! I don't agree. Pearl Jam is represented by every creative decision they make.

Having said all this, no, I will not be playing the album years from now just because of the artwork. But I might try a tiny bit harder to appreciate the songs and let them grow on me for a while. If I hated the artwork, chances are I'd be put off from square one, and I'm glad there's no danger of that. The artwork's cool, now we can just evaluate the music.

I'm not undermining the point for making artwork, but I believe it shouldn't be a material factor on your opinion of the album or that it would make someone get put off from square one. Just curious, what's your opinion on the music of Mozart, Bach, Lead Belly etc. since they have no artwork? I guess for me, the music is more than enough imagery for me.

I don't think that's a meaningful comparison, considering classical / orchestral music is often all about painting pictures with words. We've lost that sense in our day and age; musicians are lazy and rely on artists to help sell their work. In contrast, classical musicians often title their music after paintings, and a lot of orchestral music is meant to accompany plays, operas, movies. Even now, the film score is a little more visually thought-through than Pearl Jam.

But hey, I think the visuals released with the album are crucial to the album's enjoyment. You don't. It is what it is. I'm not saying (and I think you wish I was) that I'll love any old shit just because of pretty pictures. But neither will I buy a sofa if I don't like its upholstery, even if I can sit on it.

EJ wrote:

evenslow wrote:Album artwork ALWAYS shapes what I picture in my head when I listen to the music, for better or worse.

Like, for Binaural, the songs take on a sense of floating through space amidst images like the Hourglass Nebula. I think it works well for those songs.

Do you think of zombies when you listen to Parachutes?

No. No, I don't.

You got me there. I take back everything I said.

Avocado was the first album where I felt the artwork was a swing and a miss. The whole thing just didn't fit together. Which is probably why I don't picture zombies when I hear Parachutes. But from now on, I promise to try.

evenslow wrote:

EJ wrote:

evenslow wrote:Album artwork ALWAYS shapes what I picture in my head when I listen to the music, for better or worse.

Like, for Binaural, the songs take on a sense of floating through space amidst images like the Hourglass Nebula. I think it works well for those songs.

Do you think of zombies when you listen to Parachutes?

No. No, I don't.

You got me there. I take back everything I said.

Avocado was the first album where I felt the artwork was a swing and a miss. The whole thing just didn't fit together. Which is probably why I don't picture zombies when I hear Parachutes. But from now on, I promise to try.

The S/T artwork could've worked if we'd had more Severed Hands, and Inside Job had been covered in self-consciously trippy lyrics.

evenslow wrote:

EJ wrote:

evenslow wrote:Album artwork ALWAYS shapes what I picture in my head when I listen to the music, for better or worse.

Like, for Binaural, the songs take on a sense of floating through space amidst images like the Hourglass Nebula. I think it works well for those songs.

Do you think of zombies when you listen to Parachutes?

No. No, I don't.

You got me there. I take back everything I said.

Avocado was the first album where I felt the artwork was a swing and a miss. The whole thing just didn't fit together. Which is probably why I don't picture zombies when I hear Parachutes. But from now on, I promise to try.

Nice, I was just kidding. I'm with you though, that was the first album's artwork that was a big disappointment.

I could write an essay about the kind of album that should've sat with that artwork. And I'd take one or two of the songs we got as a starting point.

From their own admission they were exhausted by the end of that record, so I could see where they didn't have enough left in the tank for comprehensive artwork.

That might explain the avocado

So how long have we got?