Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[Jorge]

Oh shit I'd forgotten about Dime's weird Jew thing

[dimejinky99]

lets please bookmark this page as one of LVs less spectacular but more layered and enjoyable tantrums

I hope you get beaten to death by a gang of bitter, avaricious jews

Is there any other kind?
It’s annoys both them and me, no end, that my name is David.
I hope they don’t research me too much when I go on my fact finding mission to the joke state of Israel next month.

How do you defend befriending this asshole, stip?

I’m Irish. I looked into his eyes and cast a glamour that will last a hundred thousand years down all his progeny. (Cead mile failte doesn’t mean what you think it means)

I can make him dance a merry jig whenever I choose to. I don’t choose to because he’s a good guy.
You however.


Have you ever seen Darby o gill and the little people? You’d really like it.

[Strat]

lets please bookmark this page as one of LVs less spectacular but more layered and enjoyable tantrums

I hope you get beaten to death by a gang of bitter, avaricious jews

Is there any other kind?
It’s annoys both them and me, no end, that my name is David.
I hope they don’t research me too much when I go on my fact finding mission to the joke state of Israel next month.

How do you defend befriending this asshole, stip?

Because we are just retards drooling on ourselves, of course

strikes me as so ridiculously dense and obtuse that I almost wonder how anyone who thinks that could understand any art ever beyond the most basic level of plot

[dimejinky99]

Oh shit I'd forgotten about Dime's weird Jew thing

I don’t have a weird jew thing at all!
I just don’t believe bombing and shooting anyone out of existence while everyone turns to look at the ceiling or anywhere else is acceptable behaviour.jews are grand. Israeli government aren’t grand at all.

[LoathedVermin72]

lets please bookmark this page as one of LVs less spectacular but more layered and enjoyable tantrums

I hope you get beaten to death by a gang of bitter, avaricious jews

Is there any other kind?
It’s annoys both them and me, no end, that my name is David.
I hope they don’t research me too much when I go on my fact finding mission to the joke state of Israel next month.

How do you defend befriending this asshole, stip?

Because we are just retards drooling on ourselves, of course

strikes me as so ridiculously dense and obtuse that I almost wonder how anyone who thinks that could understand any art ever beyond the most basic level of plot

At least I’m not blithely forgiving an antisemitic piece of shit

[Strat]

Geezes christ. IM out.

[dimejinky99]

lets please bookmark this page as one of LVs less spectacular but more layered and enjoyable tantrums

I hope you get beaten to death by a gang of bitter, avaricious jews

Is there any other kind?
It’s annoys both them and me, no end, that my name is David.
I hope they don’t research me too much when I go on my fact finding mission to the joke state of Israel next month.

How do you defend befriending this asshole, stip?

Because we are just retards drooling on ourselves, of course

strikes me as so ridiculously dense and obtuse that I almost wonder how anyone who thinks that could understand any art ever beyond the most basic level of plot

At least I’m not blithely forgiving an antisemitic piece of shit

Delicious
Is there a word for someone that supports killing Palestinians? Oh yeah. Anti Semitic.

[LoathedVermin72]

lets please bookmark this page as one of LVs less spectacular but more layered and enjoyable tantrums

I hope you get beaten to death by a gang of bitter, avaricious jews

Is there any other kind?
It’s annoys both them and me, no end, that my name is David.
I hope they don’t research me too much when I go on my fact finding mission to the joke state of Israel next month.

How do you defend befriending this asshole, stip?

Because we are just retards drooling on ourselves, of course

strikes me as so ridiculously dense and obtuse that I almost wonder how anyone who thinks that could understand any art ever beyond the most basic level of plot

At least I’m not blithely forgiving an antisemitic piece of shit

Delicious
Is there a word for someone that supports killing Palestinians? Oh yeah. Anti Semitic.

jews are bitter, mean and prone to avarice

Fuck you.

[dimejinky99]

lets please bookmark this page as one of LVs less spectacular but more layered and enjoyable tantrums

I hope you get beaten to death by a gang of bitter, avaricious jews

Is there any other kind?
It’s annoys both them and me, no end, that my name is David.
I hope they don’t research me too much when I go on my fact finding mission to the joke state of Israel next month.

How do you defend befriending this asshole, stip?

Because we are just retards drooling on ourselves, of course

strikes me as so ridiculously dense and obtuse that I almost wonder how anyone who thinks that could understand any art ever beyond the most basic level of plot

At least I’m not blithely forgiving an antisemitic piece of shit

Delicious
Is there a word for someone that supports killing Palestinians? Oh yeah. Anti Semitic.

jews are bitter, mean and prone to avarice

Fuck you.

And you
Your tag is broken there have a look at that.

[BurtReynolds]

Finally a good edit!

http://amp.dailycaller.com/2018/01/16/4 ... iggerland/

repost for laughs

[LoathedVermin72]

lets please bookmark this page as one of LVs less spectacular but more layered and enjoyable tantrums

I hope you get beaten to death by a gang of bitter, avaricious jews

Is there any other kind?
It’s annoys both them and me, no end, that my name is David.
I hope they don’t research me too much when I go on my fact finding mission to the joke state of Israel next month.

How do you defend befriending this asshole, stip?

Because we are just retards drooling on ourselves, of course

strikes me as so ridiculously dense and obtuse that I almost wonder how anyone who thinks that could understand any art ever beyond the most basic level of plot

At least I’m not blithely forgiving an antisemitic piece of shit

Delicious
Is there a word for someone that supports killing Palestinians? Oh yeah. Anti Semitic.

jews are bitter, mean and prone to avarice

Fuck you.

And you
Your tag is broken there have a look at that.

I hope JJ Abrams chokes you with a menorah

[Strat]

Finally a good edit!

http://amp.dailycaller.com/2018/01/16/4 ... iggerland/

repost for laughs

Burt feels lost in the mix.

[dimejinky99]

lets please bookmark this page as one of LVs less spectacular but more layered and enjoyable tantrums

I hope you get beaten to death by a gang of bitter, avaricious jews

Is there any other kind?
It’s annoys both them and me, no end, that my name is David.
I hope they don’t research me too much when I go on my fact finding mission to the joke state of Israel next month.

How do you defend befriending this asshole, stip?

Because we are just retards drooling on ourselves, of course

strikes me as so ridiculously dense and obtuse that I almost wonder how anyone who thinks that could understand any art ever beyond the most basic level of plot

At least I’m not blithely forgiving an antisemitic piece of shit

Delicious
Is there a word for someone that supports killing Palestinians? Oh yeah. Anti Semitic.

jews are bitter, mean and prone to avarice

Fuck you.

And you
Your tag is broken there have a look at that.

I hope JJ Abrams chokes you with a menorah

Of course you do. Although I think you are more likely to die of strangling over his efforts real or imagined than I ever will.

[Monkey_Driven]

Congrats to whoever had Page 472 in the Palestinian reference pool.

[E.H. Ruddock]

What the fuck happened here

[Jorge]

What the fuck happened here

The one time I participate in a Star Wars debate and this happens

[dimejinky99]

LV went full we’re all dickheads and nazis apparently, then verklempt.

[Anders]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be bothered by a movie jumping 30 years and completely changing a character. Just chalking it up to “we haven’t seen THIS Luke” without any connective tissue is a bullshit argument. That has to be earned.

True. We learned a lot about him from the OT, and now he has given up on everything he ever was or believed in.

but it is not an arbitrary and capricious decision. It is a perfectly reasonable reaction to the offscreen events (that are detailed in the course of the two movies), and one he works through in the course of the film's narrative.

Yes but the narrative is dumb and inherently contradicts the themes of the OT

It contradicts nothing thematically (that I can think of)The OT states that the rebels won a major victory and Luke redeemed his father. It is easy enough to imply that the war ended but it’s never stated (and that the EU immediately picks up with the war shows that this is a logical follow up). If Episode VII followed 3 year’s later I doubt we would bat an eye. It’s the thirty year gap that ossified that impression


This criticism is not unlike saying LOTR never should have happened because it’s existence undermines the history of the second age (that’s for you, Dime).

Platt is right. The new trilogy (and the prequels, actually) reframe the OT as part of one long multigenerational war. Which is awesome

Let's look at the themes of the OT.

In my view, the whole trilogy is about overcoming. Evolving. Transcending. It's about hope. Change. Possibility. Becoming a better person. Redeeming your flaws. Fighting for what's right. The end of ROTJ gives a beautiful, thematically and emotionally meaningful catharsis to this thematic arc. The war was always metaphorical for what was happening with the characters. It ended when their arcs reached their thematic and personal conclusion.

Coming in later and effectively undoing their ultimate victory and resetting the war for narrative purposes essentially destroys the meaning of the entire arc. By destroying that hope for catharsis that was so vital to the OT, you destroy everything that made SW a meaningful franchise.

Approaching the end of ROTJ with the absurdly literal rationale of "It is easy enough to imply that the war ended but it’s never stated," strikes me as so ridiculously dense and obtuse that I almost wonder how anyone who thinks that could understand any art ever beyond the most basic level of plot. What the fuck more do you need ROTJ to do to explain to you that the war is over other than a massive victory party that concludes the thematic arcs of every character, whose internal struggles have been externalized through this war for three movies? Do you need to watch the Empire and Rebels sign a fucking cease-fire agreement?

You are completely right about the themes of the OT/SW. Star Wars is not just about a very long war (lol), it's about something a lot more important than that. Fighting for what is right. Emotional growth. Overcoming the odds. At the end of ROTJ you get an ending to this for the main characters (and everyone else). Luke has not just helped win the war, he has overcome. He has conqured the darkness within. He has faced everything head on with no fear.

In the new movies in the saga, or for Rebels or Rogue One, the characters are also faced with difficult tasks, and have to overcome to succeed. Rey gets to grow, she gets to overcome, she gets to conquer. Finn goes from being a storm trooper, to a resistance fighter. Then he tries to run away again, but is turned around by love and personal growth, and in the end he is ready to sacrifice himself for the cause, for his friends. Poe fails and fails, but in the end of TLJ he seems set to lead the resistance. To finally man up, and take charge in a mature way. Leia reaches within to save herself by using the force, when she is in the greatest peril. All of this is fine.

However, in order to set the stage for this, Luke has to be a broken man, living a desolate life. He basically kills himself to become a legend according to the director. He has pulled away from helping his friends and facing the enemy head on, retreated from the force and lost faith in the Jedi. Han and Leia have abandoned their child, divorced, Han went back to being a lowlife smuggler. Leia is stuck as ever fighting for the rebellion. Basically they have reset the events that happened at the end of ROTJ, in order to create new stories, for new characters. And they have done it in the worst way possible.

I am glad we have more Star Wars, and I enjoy every movie and series. It's just a shame that in the process, they are undoing what the OT set out to achieve, leaving it with a lot less meaning, and flipping Luke upside down. Perhaps it's all just about a long war after all.

[stip]

im going to repost my response to LV’s critique since Anders just referenced it, and it was immediately followef by 4 pages of nonsense

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be bothered by a movie jumping 30 years and completely changing a character. Just chalking it up to “we haven’t seen THIS Luke” without any connective tissue is a bullshit argument. That has to be earned.

True. We learned a lot about him from the OT, and now he has given up on everything he ever was or believed in.

but it is not an arbitrary and capricious decision. It is a perfectly reasonable reaction to the offscreen events (that are detailed in the course of the two movies), and one he works through in the course of the film's narrative.

Yes but the narrative is dumb and inherently contradicts the themes of the OT

It contradicts nothing thematically (that I can think of)The OT states that the rebels won a major victory and Luke redeemed his father. It is easy enough to imply that the war ended but it’s never stated (and that the EU immediately picks up with the war shows that this is a logical follow up). If Episode VII followed 3 year’s later I doubt we would bat an eye. It’s the thirty year gap that ossified that impression


This criticism is not unlike saying LOTR never should have happened because it’s existence undermines the history of the second age (that’s for you, Dime).

Platt is right. The new trilogy (and the prequels, actually) reframe the OT as part of one long multigenerational war. Which is awesome

Let's look at the themes of the OT.

In my view, the whole trilogy is about overcoming. Evolving. Transcending. It's about hope. Change. Possibility. Becoming a better person. Redeeming your flaws. Fighting for what's right. The end of ROTJ gives a beautiful, thematically and emotionally meaningful catharsis to this thematic arc. The war was always metaphorical for what was happening with the characters. It ended when their arcs reached their thematic and personal conclusion.

Coming in later and effectively undoing their ultimate victory and resetting the war for narrative purposes essentially destroys the meaning of the entire arc. By destroying that hope for catharsis that was so vital to the OT, you destroy everything that made SW a meaningful franchise.

Approaching the end of ROTJ with the absurdly literal rationale of "It is easy enough to imply that the war ended but it’s never stated," strikes me as so ridiculously dense and obtuse that I almost wonder how anyone who thinks that could understand any art ever beyond the most basic level of plot. What the fuck more do you need ROTJ to do to explain to you that the war is over other than a massive victory party that concludes the thematic arcs of every character, whose internal struggles have been externalized through this war for three movies? Do you need to watch the Empire and Rebels sign a fucking cease-fire agreement?

So lets stick with this theme about overcoming, hope, change, etc. These new movies actually expand on those themes. Everything pretty much breaks right for our heroes in RoTJ. The only film where there are costs is Empire, all of which are immediately undone (with no lasting impact) by the end of the Jabba sequence in Jedi. What happens if you hit a setback? What happens if you fail? How do you hold onto hope, redemption, becoming a better person when not only are there failures, but you are in some way instrumental in that failure in a deeply personal way.

These new films make use of our old characters by having all of them deeply complicit in a failure (the fall of Ben Solo) that is of galactic import and personally shattering. How do they respond? How are they redeemed? What makes it work is that the same people who overcame tremendous external odds also demonstrate that they can do the same internally, and they all end their story (Luke and Han) reaffirming those values and themes after a moment of desolation.

There is also the democratization of these themes. A New Hope begins with Luke as a farm boy who does great things. Even a small person can change the world and overcome great evil. By the end of Return of the Jedi this is a narrow story about a small group of people who are all related to each other, or their close personal friends. As Rian Johnson said in that piece Dime quoted a few pages back, turns out not everyone can become president. These new stories take us back to the point of a New Hope, which is that everyone can.

Approaching the end of ROTJ with the absurdly literal rationale of "It is easy enough to imply that the war ended but it’s never stated," strikes me as so ridiculously dense and obtuse that I almost wonder how anyone who thinks that could understand any art ever beyond the most basic level of plot. What the fuck more do you need ROTJ to do to explain to you that the war is over other than a massive victory party that concludes the thematic arcs of every character, whose internal struggles have been externalized through this war for three movies? Do you need to watch the Empire and Rebels sign a fucking cease-fire agreement

The point I'm making (which again, I remind you, is also the direction that basically a million fucking officially licensed star wars stories for the better part of thirty years used as a jumping off point) is not that the story HAD to continue. Just that if you chose to continue it it makes perfect sense.

You can tell a World War I movie and it ends with a cease fire and a happy ending, and that works as a stand alone story. But you can also tell a World War II story about the state of the world twenty years later as a result of the fallout of that first war and it is also a completely legitimate and honest move - and it doesn't invalidate the lessons learned from the first story. Especially because, as you mention, these stories are not about ending a war. The war is a backdrop through which personal stories are told.

[Anders]

These new movies actually expand on those themes. Everything pretty much breaks right for our heroes in RoTJ. The only film where there are costs is Empire, all of which are immediately undone (with no lasting impact) by the end of the Jabba sequence in Jedi. What happens if you hit a setback? What happens if you fail? How do you hold onto hope, redemption, becoming a better person when not only are there failures, but you are in some way instrumental in that failure in a deeply personal way.

There is also the democratization of these themes. A New Hope begins with Luke as a farm boy who does great things. Even a small person can change the world and overcome great evil. By the end of Return of the Jedi this is a narrow story about a small group of people who are all related to each other, or their close personal friends. As Rian Johnson said in that piece Dime quoted a few pages back, turns out not everyone can become president. These new stories take us back to the point of a New Hope, which is that everyone can.

In ANH we learn that Luke's family is killed, he is an orphan, he was the son of a great pilot and warrior, he is left with nothing but a mentor (who used to be his old neighbour), and then the mentior is killed in front of him. Leaving him with nothing but his family legacy and his new friends. I would say those costs are about as great as any has faced. However, Luke always faces his fears head on, and does what needs to be done.

You are completely wrong about Return Of The Jedi being narrow. By it being about friends and family, and overcoming the odds, they gave hope to all. They helped liberate all. The new story tells us that even if you do overcome, you are destined to fail in the end anyway.