Red Mosquito

We don't know what Democratic turnout is going to be, but it's also a big assumption that record GOP turnout grafts onto whoever the next Republican nominee is. Does that record turnout come out in two to four years when your anti-establishment heroes are Mitch McConnell and Nikki Haley, not Donald Trump?

I could definitely see people getting behind Nimrata Haley

I’m always going to vote for the guy who soils his pants less.

spike wrote:I’m always going to vote for the guy who soils his pants less.

You should do the opposite.

BurtReynolds wrote:

spike wrote:I’m always going to vote for the guy who soils his pants less.

You should do the opposite.

If you’re not going to change your Depends throughout the day, you’re going to have a hard time gaining my trust.

digster wrote:We don't know what Democratic turnout is going to be, but it's also a big assumption that record GOP turnout grafts onto whoever the next Republican nominee is. Does that record turnout come out in two to four years when your anti-establishment heroes are Mitch McConnell and Nikki Haley, not Donald Trump?

I'm not saying either side matches their total from 2020, but in terms of enthusiasm, it just seems being out of power is motivating, especially in a partisan environment.

digster wrote:We don't know what Democratic turnout is going to be, but it's also a big assumption that record GOP turnout grafts onto whoever the next Republican nominee is. Does that record turnout come out in two to four years when your anti-establishment heroes are Mitch McConnell and Nikki Haley, not Donald Trump?

It's harder to predict that side. Depends on what Trump does or how much they perceive the election was stolen.

I think politics as sports entertainment is only going to become more of a thing. Huge turnouts from here on out.

verb_to_trust wrote:I think politics as sports entertainment is only going to become more of a thing. Huge turnouts from here on out.

Also possible. Social media really enables this.

Rob wrote:

digster wrote:We don't know what Democratic turnout is going to be, but it's also a big assumption that record GOP turnout grafts onto whoever the next Republican nominee is. Does that record turnout come out in two to four years when your anti-establishment heroes are Mitch McConnell and Nikki Haley, not Donald Trump?

I'm not saying either side matches their total from 2020, but in terms of enthusiasm, it just seems being out of power is motivating, especially in a partisan environment.

There's way more that we don't know than usual, or at least I don't know how to predict it. For one, this is the first time in nearly 30 years a president's been dropped, as opposed to hitting term limits. It seems unlikely that Trump's post-presidency is going to match most others; I don't really know what it means for the GOP or Democrats if he just, for lack of a better term, just hangs around. And does he still help the GOP? It's kind of hard to imagine him barnstorming the country "for the good of the party." Does it help the GOP if he remains the face of the party but is never on a ballot? Or maybe he runs again in four years. And what is it going to do to GOP turnout if Trump ingrains it in their head that everything's rigged and their vote didn't matter?

Rob wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:well, for those guys Biden is a communist and thats just....I mean. He is way more conservative, pro war, economic liberal and right wing than any of his democrats voters would like to admit.

I didn't vote for Biden for his leftist ideals. I voted for him because he was the one choice that wasn't Trump. No one believers the "extreme left/communist" horseshit, not liberal voters, not the Trump supporters that made it up.

I think you underestimate the damage that the "socialist" label does to today's democratic party and the number of people who consider that worse than whatever level of "racist" Trump was perceived to be.

They used the Socialist label as much or more than in the past, GOP turned out a record number of voters, and Biden still won. My guess is that what we've seen over the years is true - the "socialism is scary" stuff has an expiration date - basically most (not all) under 45 or 50 these days don't seem swayed by it. Only a matter of time before there aren't enough Boomers and older Xers to make this argument work. I kind of think we're already there. It may work with some Hispanics down south for a while more, especially immigrants, but why wouldn't America eventually join the rest of the free world and drop the Commie hysteria?

Agree, eventually historical rewrites will prevail as the people who have had to live through it die off (they are generally terrified of it and some non-insignificant number of them let that drive their votes) and are replaced with the "this time it will be different" crowd of well meaning white people. The Cuban refugees are just the most obvious example, but feel free to mock their lived experience as 'hysteria'.


Back to what Digster said, both options are likely are work at the same time. A sizable number of Biden votes were "not Trump" votes and likely a sizable number of Trump where "not Socialism". My guess is Trump failing at dealing with COVID on even the most basic level tipped the scales with Independents going Biden/Harris.

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:well, for those guys Biden is a communist and thats just....I mean. He is way more conservative, pro war, economic liberal and right wing than any of his democrats voters would like to admit.

I didn't vote for Biden for his leftist ideals. I voted for him because he was the one choice that wasn't Trump. No one believers the "extreme left/communist" horseshit, not liberal voters, not the Trump supporters that made it up.

I think you underestimate the damage that the "socialist" label does to today's democratic party and the number of people who consider that worse than whatever level of "racist" Trump was perceived to be.

They used the Socialist label as much or more than in the past, GOP turned out a record number of voters, and Biden still won. My guess is that what we've seen over the years is true - the "socialism is scary" stuff has an expiration date - basically most (not all) under 45 or 50 these days don't seem swayed by it. Only a matter of time before there aren't enough Boomers and older Xers to make this argument work. I kind of think we're already there. It may work with some Hispanics down south for a while more, especially immigrants, but why wouldn't America eventually join the rest of the free world and drop the Commie hysteria?

Agree, eventually historical rewrites will prevail as the people who have had to live through it die off (they are generally terrified of it and some non-insignificant number of them let that drive their votes) and are replaced with the "this time it will be different" crowd of well meaning white people. The Cuban refugees are just the most obvious example, but feel free to mock their lived experience as 'hysteria'.


Back to what Digster said, both options are likely are work at the same time. A sizable number of Biden votes were "not Trump" votes and likely a sizable number of Trump where "not Socialism". My guess is Trump failing at dealing with COVID on even the most basic level tipped the scales with Independents going Biden/Harris.

Both sides of my family, both parents of mine were born in Cuba, came here to escape Castro and socialism. Believe me, I've heard about it for 42 years. Cubans are like anyone else - we also think half the other Cubans are crazy, and it is much more common than you think to see this as hysteria. I am a well meaning white person though, as I'm sure you are.

Also yeah it absolutely is hysteria within the context of this conversation, and 2020s American politics. My Venezuelan aunts and uncles are convinced Biden is going to literally install socialism. Their lived experience doesn't make them any less wrong.

Jorge wrote:Also yeah it absolutely is hysteria within the context of this conversation, and 2020s American politics. My Venezuelan aunts and uncles are convinced Biden is going to literally install socialism. Their lived experience doesn't make them any less wrong.

I can't even talk politics with my father anymore because apparently I've voted to destroy America.

And to be fair, their lived experiences were awful back then. They suffered. That's part of the reason they're hysterical.

The good news is that things will almost certainly be worse in four years regardless of who won.

BurtReynolds wrote:The good news is that things will almost certainly be worse in four years regardless of who won.

Honestly right now is one of the few moments in time when I wouldn't necessarily agree with this sentiment. And not because of Biden.

Jorge wrote:Also yeah it absolutely is hysteria within the context of this conversation, and 2020s American politics. My Venezuelan aunts and uncles are convinced Biden is going to literally install socialism. Their lived experience doesn't make them any less wrong.

Their lived experience rightfully makes them fear Socialism and if a significant portion of the blue team is advocating for it*, it's not entirely hysteria to associate it with that team's chosen nominee.

*I know, I know, "not real Socialism"

doug rr wrote:

This reminds me of the time I tried to keep pace doing funnels of grain alcohol and Hawaiian Punch with a guy doing funnels of beer. A wiser man would have bowed out after round three, round four at the latest.