Red Mosquito

I meant “no one does anything” in the broader sense. We have watched these people suffer for decades. The fact that they get x amount of aid doesn’t answer the question as to why they need it. If your territory is cut off and routinely damaged/destroyed, you may need some aid.

We should all be conditioned at this point to resist an American presence on the ground in the Middle East, but the fact seems to be that the flashpoint needed to break things loose has occurred. Five months in, it should be clear Israel isn’t going to listen to the Biden admin. Someone has to do something.

Rob wrote:I meant “no one does anything” in the broader sense. We have watched these people suffer for decades. The fact that they get x amount of aid doesn’t answer the question as to why they need it. If your territory is cut off and routinely damaged/destroyed, you may need some aid.

We should all be conditioned at this point to resist an American presence on the ground in the Middle East, but the fact seems to be that the flashpoint needed to break things loose has occurred. Five months in, it should be clear Israel isn’t going to listen to the Biden admin. Someone has to do something.

Hamas can return the remaining hostages and surrender

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:I meant “no one does anything” in the broader sense. We have watched these people suffer for decades. The fact that they get x amount of aid doesn’t answer the question as to why they need it. If your territory is cut off and routinely damaged/destroyed, you may need some aid.

We should all be conditioned at this point to resist an American presence on the ground in the Middle East, but the fact seems to be that the flashpoint needed to break things loose has occurred. Five months in, it should be clear Israel isn’t going to listen to the Biden admin. Someone has to do something.

Hamas can return the remaining hostages and surrender

I hear you, but if the solution to a problem depends on a terrorist organization doing the right thing, is that something we should spend time thinking on or take seriously? That’s not the answer and everyone knows that’s not how this will end. I don’t think you can allow a society to decay to the extent the world let Palestine decay, and then turn around and make any sort of “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” or “do the right thing” type of proposal. They do not want to be controlled by Israel and have their land constantly annexed. I don’t see how or why anything would change before that’s remedied.

Despite killing all these people, Israel has not been able to free the hostages, or to stop Hamas. Until they do, they will not stop.

Anders wrote:Despite killing all these people, Israel has not been able to free the hostages, or to stop Hamas. Until they do, they will not stop.

This may be true, but of the two involved in this conflict, it’s Israel that has most of the power. Does someone need to stop them? One of the two parties here is capable of literally destroying the other completely, and so far it’s not clear that this isn’t what they’re doing. That’s not the same as destroying a ruling terrorist faction. You would’ve been hard pressed 5 months ago to find a reasonable person who didn’t support a big response. But now it should be clear that Netanyahu (and assuming others) may be taking full advantage of 10/7 to advance their quest of expanding Israel by removing as many Palestinians as they can. I would’ve considered that a sort-of conspiracy theory st the beginning, but Netanyahu’s comments over a decade combined with what we’ve seen these last 5 months, and now… I don’t know. This is probably what it would look like.

Rob wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:I meant “no one does anything” in the broader sense. We have watched these people suffer for decades. The fact that they get x amount of aid doesn’t answer the question as to why they need it. If your territory is cut off and routinely damaged/destroyed, you may need some aid.

We should all be conditioned at this point to resist an American presence on the ground in the Middle East, but the fact seems to be that the flashpoint needed to break things loose has occurred. Five months in, it should be clear Israel isn’t going to listen to the Biden admin. Someone has to do something.

Hamas can return the remaining hostages and surrender

I hear you, but if the solution to a problem depends on a terrorist organization doing the right thing, is that something we should spend time thinking on or take seriously? That’s not the answer and everyone knows that’s not how this will end. I don’t think you can allow a society to decay to the extent the world let Palestine decay, and then turn around and make any sort of “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” or “do the right thing” type of proposal. They do not want to be controlled by Israel and have their land constantly annexed. I don’t see how or why anything would change before that’s remedied.

I am all for being a realist in all aspects of life, so I get what you're saying, but isn't this the reason why Israel should not negotiate for anything but Hamas's full surrender?

Anders wrote:Despite killing all these people, Israel has not been able to free the hostages, or to stop Hamas. Until they do, they will not stop.

What makes you think they'll ever stop?

BurtReynolds wrote:

Anders wrote:Despite killing all these people, Israel has not been able to free the hostages, or to stop Hamas. Until they do, they will not stop.

What makes you think they'll ever stop?

Depends on how you define stop.

Anders wrote:Despite killing all these people, Israel has not been able to free the hostages, or to stop Hamas. Until they do, they will not stop.

They'd have more success freeing hostages if they'd stop killing them.

Israel doesn’t want to free the hostages. Then their excuse to keep eradicating Palestinians through military means goes away.

spike wrote:Israel doesn’t want to free the hostages. Then their excuse to keep eradicating Palestinians through military means goes away.

do you wish your HOA could employ hostage-taking as a compliance strategy?

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:I meant “no one does anything” in the broader sense. We have watched these people suffer for decades. The fact that they get x amount of aid doesn’t answer the question as to why they need it. If your territory is cut off and routinely damaged/destroyed, you may need some aid.

We should all be conditioned at this point to resist an American presence on the ground in the Middle East, but the fact seems to be that the flashpoint needed to break things loose has occurred. Five months in, it should be clear Israel isn’t going to listen to the Biden admin. Someone has to do something.

Hamas can return the remaining hostages and surrender

I hear you, but if the solution to a problem depends on a terrorist organization doing the right thing, is that something we should spend time thinking on or take seriously? That’s not the answer and everyone knows that’s not how this will end. I don’t think you can allow a society to decay to the extent the world let Palestine decay, and then turn around and make any sort of “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” or “do the right thing” type of proposal. They do not want to be controlled by Israel and have their land constantly annexed. I don’t see how or why anything would change before that’s remedied.

I am all for being a realist in all aspects of life, so I get what you're saying, but isn't this the reason why Israel should not negotiate for anything but Hamas's full surrender?

I don’t know how you can be a realist and believe that’s an option. And what does full surrender even mean? Releasing the hostages is a tangible thing but full surrender? Is that a ceasefire where they promise to be good? I doubt that very much. The only people who can stamp out Hamas are the Palestinians, and for that to happen they need to have hope that something better is possible. Israel is just bombing them further away from any kind of hopeful or peaceful stance.

Alex wrote:

spike wrote:Israel doesn’t want to free the hostages. Then their excuse to keep eradicating Palestinians through military means goes away.

do you wish your HOA could employ hostage-taking as a compliance strategy?

I don’t think anyone would miss the problem owners.

spike wrote:

Alex wrote:

spike wrote:Israel doesn’t want to free the hostages. Then their excuse to keep eradicating Palestinians through military means goes away.

do you wish your HOA could employ hostage-taking as a compliance strategy?

I don’t think anyone would miss the problem owners.

string them up, slit their throats. their blood will be repurposed into a pudding for Full English.

Rob wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:I meant “no one does anything” in the broader sense. We have watched these people suffer for decades. The fact that they get x amount of aid doesn’t answer the question as to why they need it. If your territory is cut off and routinely damaged/destroyed, you may need some aid.

We should all be conditioned at this point to resist an American presence on the ground in the Middle East, but the fact seems to be that the flashpoint needed to break things loose has occurred. Five months in, it should be clear Israel isn’t going to listen to the Biden admin. Someone has to do something.

Hamas can return the remaining hostages and surrender

I hear you, but if the solution to a problem depends on a terrorist organization doing the right thing, is that something we should spend time thinking on or take seriously? That’s not the answer and everyone knows that’s not how this will end. I don’t think you can allow a society to decay to the extent the world let Palestine decay, and then turn around and make any sort of “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” or “do the right thing” type of proposal. They do not want to be controlled by Israel and have their land constantly annexed. I don’t see how or why anything would change before that’s remedied.

I am all for being a realist in all aspects of life, so I get what you're saying, but isn't this the reason why Israel should not negotiate for anything but Hamas's full surrender?

I don’t know how you can be a realist and believe that’s an option. And what does full surrender even mean? Releasing the hostages is a tangible thing but full surrender? Is that a ceasefire where they promise to be good? I doubt that very much. The only people who can stamp out Hamas are the Palestinians, and for that to happen they need to have hope that something better is possible. Israel is just bombing them further away from any kind of hopeful or peaceful stance.

I believe Israel has framed it as the release of the remaining hostages, the surrender of Hamas leading including turning themselves over to Israel for trial, and dissolving Hamas's political control over Gaza replaced by outside parties (Arab states and/or UN peacekeepers).

I think you're assuming that the 'something better' the people of Gaza want is peace. History tells us what they want is vengeance. Can't have both.

Did I see Biden finally called Israel assholes?

the sexual violence accusations against Israel are positively tragabigzandian

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:I meant “no one does anything” in the broader sense. We have watched these people suffer for decades. The fact that they get x amount of aid doesn’t answer the question as to why they need it. If your territory is cut off and routinely damaged/destroyed, you may need some aid.

We should all be conditioned at this point to resist an American presence on the ground in the Middle East, but the fact seems to be that the flashpoint needed to break things loose has occurred. Five months in, it should be clear Israel isn’t going to listen to the Biden admin. Someone has to do something.

Hamas can return the remaining hostages and surrender

I hear you, but if the solution to a problem depends on a terrorist organization doing the right thing, is that something we should spend time thinking on or take seriously? That’s not the answer and everyone knows that’s not how this will end. I don’t think you can allow a society to decay to the extent the world let Palestine decay, and then turn around and make any sort of “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” or “do the right thing” type of proposal. They do not want to be controlled by Israel and have their land constantly annexed. I don’t see how or why anything would change before that’s remedied.

I am all for being a realist in all aspects of life, so I get what you're saying, but isn't this the reason why Israel should not negotiate for anything but Hamas's full surrender?

I don’t know how you can be a realist and believe that’s an option. And what does full surrender even mean? Releasing the hostages is a tangible thing but full surrender? Is that a ceasefire where they promise to be good? I doubt that very much. The only people who can stamp out Hamas are the Palestinians, and for that to happen they need to have hope that something better is possible. Israel is just bombing them further away from any kind of hopeful or peaceful stance.

I believe Israel has framed it as the release of the remaining hostages, the surrender of Hamas leading including turning themselves over to Israel for trial, and dissolving Hamas's political control over Gaza replaced by outside parties (Arab states and/or UN peacekeepers).

I think you're assuming that the 'something better' the people of Gaza want is peace. History tells us what they want is vengeance. Can't have both.

You say this as we watch Israel destroy Gaza because of 10/7. Was that vengeance? Both sides have exacted vengeance on the other forever (75 years?). They need to see peace as possible and people are putting them responsible for it happening. This seems backwards.

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:I meant “no one does anything” in the broader sense. We have watched these people suffer for decades. The fact that they get x amount of aid doesn’t answer the question as to why they need it. If your territory is cut off and routinely damaged/destroyed, you may need some aid.

We should all be conditioned at this point to resist an American presence on the ground in the Middle East, but the fact seems to be that the flashpoint needed to break things loose has occurred. Five months in, it should be clear Israel isn’t going to listen to the Biden admin. Someone has to do something.

Hamas can return the remaining hostages and surrender

That'll work! Israeli soldiers have DEFINITELY NOT mowed down people waiving literal white flags.

Rob wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:I meant “no one does anything” in the broader sense. We have watched these people suffer for decades. The fact that they get x amount of aid doesn’t answer the question as to why they need it. If your territory is cut off and routinely damaged/destroyed, you may need some aid.

We should all be conditioned at this point to resist an American presence on the ground in the Middle East, but the fact seems to be that the flashpoint needed to break things loose has occurred. Five months in, it should be clear Israel isn’t going to listen to the Biden admin. Someone has to do something.

Hamas can return the remaining hostages and surrender

I hear you, but if the solution to a problem depends on a terrorist organization doing the right thing, is that something we should spend time thinking on or take seriously? That’s not the answer and everyone knows that’s not how this will end. I don’t think you can allow a society to decay to the extent the world let Palestine decay, and then turn around and make any sort of “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” or “do the right thing” type of proposal. They do not want to be controlled by Israel and have their land constantly annexed. I don’t see how or why anything would change before that’s remedied.

I am all for being a realist in all aspects of life, so I get what you're saying, but isn't this the reason why Israel should not negotiate for anything but Hamas's full surrender?

I don’t know how you can be a realist and believe that’s an option. And what does full surrender even mean? Releasing the hostages is a tangible thing but full surrender? Is that a ceasefire where they promise to be good? I doubt that very much. The only people who can stamp out Hamas are the Palestinians, and for that to happen they need to have hope that something better is possible. Israel is just bombing them further away from any kind of hopeful or peaceful stance.

I believe Israel has framed it as the release of the remaining hostages, the surrender of Hamas leading including turning themselves over to Israel for trial, and dissolving Hamas's political control over Gaza replaced by outside parties (Arab states and/or UN peacekeepers).

I think you're assuming that the 'something better' the people of Gaza want is peace. History tells us what they want is vengeance. Can't have both.

You say this as we watch Israel destroy Gaza because of 10/7. Was that vengeance? Both sides have exacted vengeance on the other forever (75 years?). They need to see peace as possible and people are putting them responsible for it happening. This seems backwards.

There was peace on 10/6. There were thousands of Gazans crossing into Israel to work alongside Israelis. Israel was about to normalize relations with the Saudis, one of the biggest steps towards middle east peace in history. Gaza had resorts and universities. That's peace. Was peace. That's not the modern definition of justice, that's not equity, but it was peace. And what happened? Gazans declared war on Israel and now have to live with the consequences of their actions.

Never more relevant: