Red Mosquito

epilogue wrote:@contamination

There isn't one line to cross. There isn't even a checklist or whatever. Each case is different.

For me, the biggest difference is probably that I'd already fallen in love with Kind of Blue before I knew anything about Miles' personal life. Once I learned about all of that stuff it had an effect on me, too. In fact, the only two Davis albums I own or have listened to all the way through, even, are the two I heard before I knew about the personal stuff. If Miles Davis dropped a new album tomorrow, I'd skip that one, too.

Ryan is similar in that I haven't thrown out all of his stuff that I already own and have enjoyed in the past. I listen to his stuff much less often, for sure. And when I listen now, some of the artist's personal stuff comes through in ways that aren't great and can get to me. But not always. It's difficult but it's not impossible.

I can still appreciate the songs that I've always appreciated, even if there may be some new added context/subtext. The emotional resonance remains. Dear Chicago can still be a very personal song for me that is about what was going on when I first heard it, when a friend put it on a mix for me, etc. It doesn't have to bear the weight of Ryan's baggage.

Another thing that helps Kind of Blue is that there aren't lyrics. Maybe that shouldn't matter (and, surely, for others it doesn't) but it does matter to me.

With Ryan, the issue I have is not wanting to support or enable him. If Ryan ever decides to really apologize and take real steps to try and turn things around, to make amends in some way, to show real contrition and an effort to change/educate, then maybe I could see my way back to him. But as of now, I'm just not interested. He doesn't deserve my effort or my money.

The last major difference between the two that I'll bring up in this insanely long post is that Ryan hasn't ever written/recorded anything as brilliant as Kind of Blue. It's easier for me to walk away because Ryan doesn't mean to me what he means to others. The guy has two good records (no great or perfect records) and a handful of great songs. I fully admit that if his work meant more to me this would be a much harder decision/discussion.

I believe in separating the art from the artist. But I don't have to listen to Ryan Adams. He's not a necessary artist to me (like Sam Cooke, John Lennon, Michael Jackson, etc.). There is plenty of music out there that I think is better, that means more to me -- someone earlier mentioned Jason Isbell; he's a great example. So why stress about it? Why indulge? Why support a mediocre asshole? Ryan's not doing anything particularly groundbreaking or interesting to me. Others feel differently, and I'm not here to take that away from them. They can make their own decisions and I'm not about to pick a fight or judge others or go to the mattresses to make my case.

Hope that answers your question, contamination.

verb_to_trust wrote:
Tl,dr: durden gets to pick and choose who he cancels.

Jorge wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:
Tl,dr: durden gets to pick and choose who he cancels.

We all do

epilogue wrote:

Jorge wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:
Tl,dr: durden gets to pick and choose who he cancels.

We all do

Nope, only me. And that's why I'm such a monster.

Jorge wrote:

epilogue wrote:

Jorge wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:
Tl,dr: durden gets to pick and choose who he cancels.

We all do

Nope, only me. And that's why I'm such a monster.

Like some of my absolute favorite art was made by people who are unrepentant shitbags and it doesn't matter, I can't untangle it from my life, its significance is too big. But I also fully understand (and have experienced) the desire to disengage from another artist for comparatively "minor" offenses, there's a shitload of super subjective factors at play there. This isn't a perfect point system, we are fickle, our personal relationship with art is as subjective as it gets. It's all pretty much valid I think

epilogue wrote:@contamination

There isn't one line to cross. There isn't even a checklist or whatever. Each case is different.

For me, the biggest difference is probably that I'd already fallen in love with Kind of Blue before I knew anything about Miles' personal life. Once I learned about all of that stuff it had an effect on me, too. In fact, the only two Davis albums I own or have listened to all the way through, even, are the two I heard before I knew about the personal stuff. If Miles Davis dropped a new album tomorrow, I'd skip that one, too.

Ryan is similar in that I haven't thrown out all of his stuff that I already own and have enjoyed in the past. I listen to his stuff much less often, for sure. And when I listen now, some of the artist's personal stuff comes through in ways that aren't great and can get to me. But not always. It's difficult but it's not impossible.

I can still appreciate the songs that I've always appreciated, even if there may be some new added context/subtext. The emotional resonance remains. Dear Chicago can still be a very personal song for me that is about what was going on when I first heard it, when a friend put it on a mix for me, etc. It doesn't have to bear the weight of Ryan's baggage.

Another thing that helps Kind of Blue is that there aren't lyrics. Maybe that shouldn't matter (and, surely, for others it doesn't) but it does matter to me.

With Ryan, the issue I have is not wanting to support or enable him. If Ryan ever decides to really apologize and take real steps to try and turn things around, to make amends in some way, to show real contrition and an effort to change/educate, then maybe I could see my way back to him. But as of now, I'm just not interested. He doesn't deserve my effort or my money.

The last major difference between the two that I'll bring up in this insanely long post is that Ryan hasn't ever written/recorded anything as brilliant as Kind of Blue. It's easier for me to walk away because Ryan doesn't mean to me what he means to others. The guy has two good records (no great or perfect records) and a handful of great songs. I fully admit that if his work meant more to me this would be a much harder decision/discussion.

I believe in separating the art from the artist. But I don't have to listen to Ryan Adams. He's not a necessary artist to me (like Sam Cooke, John Lennon, Michael Jackson, etc.). There is plenty of music out there that I think is better, that means more to me -- someone earlier mentioned Jason Isbell; he's a great example. So why stress about it? Why indulge? Why support a mediocre asshole? Ryan's not doing anything particularly groundbreaking or interesting to me. Others feel differently, and I'm not here to take that away from them. They can make their own decisions and I'm not about to pick a fight or judge others or go to the mattresses to make my case.

Hope that answers your question, contamination.

epilogue wrote:
The last major difference between the two that I'll bring up in this insanely long post is that Ryan hasn't ever written/recorded anything as brilliant as Kind of Blue. It's easier for me to walk away because Ryan doesn't mean to me what he means to others. The guy has two good records (no great or perfect records) and a handful of great songs. I fully admit that if his work meant more to me this would be a much harder decision/discussion.

I believe in separating the art from the artist. But I don't have to listen to Ryan Adams. He's not a necessary artist to me (like Sam Cooke, John Lennon, Michael Jackson, etc.). There is plenty of music out there that I think is better, that means more to me -- someone earlier mentioned Jason Isbell; he's a great example. So why stress about it? Why indulge? Why support a mediocre asshole? Ryan's not doing anything particularly groundbreaking or interesting to me. Others feel differently, and I'm not here to take that away from them. They can make their own decisions and I'm not about to pick a fight or judge others or go to the mattresses to make my case.

Hope that answers your question, contamination.

psychobain wrote:I understand epilogue's position, i just feel different

his music is part of my life

the meanings of the songs (FOR ME) are related to my life and not his

im not a fan of the person, but the music is something else (FOR ME)

epilogue wrote:

psychobain wrote:I understand epilogue's position, i just feel different

his music is part of my life

the meanings of the songs (FOR ME) are related to my life and not his

im not a fan of the person, but the music is something else (FOR ME)

I totally understand and respect this. And I hope my post isn't taking away from others experience of the new record. I wouldn't have posted at all expect someone asked me specifically to address it.

verb_to_trust wrote:Nobody has ever been a fan of Ryan Adams the person. His fan base should be uniquely positioned to handle his return.

Strat wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:Nobody has ever been a fan of Ryan Adams the person. His fan base should be uniquely positioned to handle his return.

Yea but he's abused his audience by virtue of his alcoholism.

Now its like...he's a woman abuser and sends dick pics to underage girls.

I dont know.

Neither camp is wrong. Im kind of mourning the loss of Ryan Adams in my life to be honest. I fucking loved him.

evenslow wrote:

Strat wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:Nobody has ever been a fan of Ryan Adams the person. His fan base should be uniquely positioned to handle his return.

Yea but he's abused his audience by virtue of his alcoholism.

Now its like...he's a woman abuser and sends dick pics to underage girls.

I dont know.

Neither camp is wrong. Im kind of mourning the loss of Ryan Adams in my life to be honest. I fucking loved him.

yep, as usual, strat and i share a brain on these things.