Red Mosquito

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Pretty sure when ISIS takes over a village and r*pes the women and claims them as wives doesn't qualify as showing more respect to women.

jwfocker wrote:WTF. You have to be willfully ignorant or just fucking stupid to think that shit is rosey for women in the middle east. Exhausting to hear such idiocy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Women are getting shot for speaking out about the need for education but yeah they have it better.

LetMeSleep wrote:Fascinating read regarding non violent anti terrorism measures.
http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/8- ... violently/

jwfocker wrote:WTF. You have to be willfully ignorant or just fucking stupid to think that shit is rosey for women in the middle east. Exhausting to hear such idiocy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Women are getting shot for speaking out about the need for education but yeah they have it better.

stip wrote:

jwfocker wrote:WTF. You have to be willfully ignorant or just fucking stupid to think that shit is rosey for women in the middle east. Exhausting to hear such idiocy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Women are getting shot for speaking out about the need for education but yeah they have it better.

That point aside, his larger reminder that there are many different variants of Islam, and that it's not a monolithic religion, is something worth remembering

jwfocker wrote:WTF. You have to be willfully ignorant or just fucking stupid to think that shit is rosey for women in the middle east. Exhausting to hear such idiocy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Women are getting shot for speaking out about the need for education but yeah they have it better.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

stip wrote:

jwfocker wrote:WTF. You have to be willfully ignorant or just fucking stupid to think that shit is rosey for women in the middle east. Exhausting to hear such idiocy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Women are getting shot for speaking out about the need for education but yeah they have it better.

That point aside, his larger reminder that there are many different variants of Islam, and that it's not a monolithic religion, is something worth remembering

It's also worth remembering that all of those variants are still bullshit.

dimejinky99 wrote:This is well written.
http://www.technologyreview.com/review/ ... /#comments

simple schoolboy wrote:

LetMeSleep wrote:Fascinating read regarding non violent anti terrorism measures.
http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/8- ... violently/

Number 1 is probably valid. It also could be seen as blackmail, unless the group in question is unfairly kept out of the market.

Number 2. The Author put 'freedom of the press' in quotation marks. I don't think we are discussing this with similar baseline assumptions and understandings. The author's line of thinking is alien to mine, or so it would seem.

Number 3. The Author failed to demonstrate why unarmed civilian peacekeeping is preferred to armed civilian peacekeeping. Others have suggested that the American civil rights movement benefited from the basic right of self defense.

Number 4. Should we sing kumbayaa?

Number 5. Why use Norway as an example? Who is an extremist in Norway outside of Anders Brevik? What great following does he have? His victims were going to do what, demand more immigration? What extreme end of the governing party would you counsel against? Unless of course your fear was that Anders Brevik's victims would turn to fundamental Islam...

Number 6 is laughable for reasons I needn't explain. He must live somewhere far away from where he has to interact with police, or, more optimistically, the police where he lives don't have unions or something approaching qualified immunity.

Number 7? I need some case studies here, but what on earth is he talking about other than Saudi Arabia (which invited us) or a whole bunch of peace keeping efforts, often as part of a coalition? Don't place troops where they'll upset folks... that seems a hard rule to follow. Should we insist on a parliamentary democracy before we employ troops? In what manner do we gain the approval of the populace? Rasmussen polls? Do we bomb the 40 percent of the population at the behest of the 60 percent majority? (see Kosovo) On what basis do we establish a country's government is legitimate?

Number 8 needs a whole number of caveats. Al Qaeda in the Magreb exists largely because of payouts from France, Germany, and Italy. Maybe it doesn't make sense to categorically say no to negotiations, but it doesn't seem to follow that one can safely negotiate the return of ones captive countrymen without promoting hostage taking.

Oh wait, he's a quaker. Nevermind.

stip wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

stip wrote:

jwfocker wrote:WTF. You have to be willfully ignorant or just fucking stupid to think that shit is rosey for women in the middle east. Exhausting to hear such idiocy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Women are getting shot for speaking out about the need for education but yeah they have it better.

That point aside, his larger reminder that there are many different variants of Islam, and that it's not a monolithic religion, is something worth remembering

It's also worth remembering that all of those variants are still bullshit.

There's nothing quite like the relentlessly dogmatic crusade against other people's dogmatism

stip wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

stip wrote:

jwfocker wrote:WTF. You have to be willfully ignorant or just fucking stupid to think that shit is rosey for women in the middle east. Exhausting to hear such idiocy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Women are getting shot for speaking out about the need for education but yeah they have it better.

That point aside, his larger reminder that there are many different variants of Islam, and that it's not a monolithic religion, is something worth remembering

It's also worth remembering that all of those variants are still bullshit.

There's nothing quite like the relentlessly dogmatic crusade against other people's dogmatism

track11 wrote:

jwfocker wrote:WTF. You have to be willfully ignorant or just fucking stupid to think that shit is rosey for women in the middle east. Exhausting to hear such idiocy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Women are getting shot for speaking out about the need for education but yeah they have it better.

That's quite strong wording. Is it idiocy to use an example from PAKISTAN for your "shit is rosey for women in the middle east" argument? Is it idiocy when I ask folks to read about Wahhabism, give the link, explain how it constitutes <1% of muslims, and then get a Taliban event thrown back in my face?

Listen, OF COURSE this sort of crap is hideous, and we should counter it by, oh I don't know, not supporting the Taliban just because they are fighting the Russians? By not having countries sequentially carpet-bombing Afghanistan and instituting puppet rulers so that corruption reigns, infrastructure is absent, and thus there is absolutely no possibility of education or work, leaving only ignorance in its swath. You don't blame Hinduism for the abhorrant acts that occur in wide swaths of India, or Christianity for the horrors in the Congo. This is caused by an unending well of utter ignorance and destitute poverty, stirred in with lots of corruption from the rulers. To cast a net that captures the Taliban in destitute Afghanistan along with ISIS in flattened Syria/Iraq along with a typical family living in Beirut or Damascus (in "normal" times) is absolutely, 100%, categorically WRONG.

Marriage[edit]

Jordanian husbands determine their wives’ abilities to employ their constitutionally guaranteed rights to work and other public activities. Jordanian legislation and culture suggests that men have a certain control over their wives to mediate their interaction with the public. Men expect their wives to be obedient because they work in order to support the family financially.[22] Some amendments postpone this “ownership” for young girls. For example, the Jordanian Parliament increased the legal age of marriage to 18 for both boys and girls, as the previous law set the legal age for marriage at 16 for boys and 15 for girls, which promoted early marriages and subsequent school drop out for married girls.[5]

Divorce[edit]

Divorce law is based almost entirely on Islamic Shari'a law, which is considered "unquestionable authority." [27] Variations in interpretation and application, however, do exist among Islamic courts across the Middle East. Divorces in Jordan, in particular, often ignore women’s rights and leave women with nothing if they are not supported by their families. In recent years, the government has worked to fix this problem by altering the judicial system. For example, "a new law has been drafted to force men to pay alimony for three years instead of six months, which was previously the case.” [27] Because men are free to divorce and stop supporting their wives if they are "disobedient," another law created an obligatory fund for divorced women, guaranteeing them a settlement from their ex-husband.[28]

Children[edit]

The father was technically responsible for the children's property, maintenance and education while the mother was responsible for the "physical care and nurturing" of the children.[29] While the father was considered the "natural guardian", if the parents were divorced the mother would take custody.[30] Today, however, children "belong" to both parents but the mother generally stays home to raise the children.

Property[edit]

While studies of women and their property rights evidence that Islamic courts have "upheld women's rights to property," women in Jordan legally own and inherit less than their male relatives do.[31] Throughout history and still today, when women have owned and inherited property, they have been frequently and intensely pressured to give up their land to male family members.[28] As a result, less than four percent of all property in Jordan is owned by women.[31]

Honor killings[edit]

Honor crimes are acts of violence committed by family members against women who are perceived to have shamed the family in some way. Women can "shame" their family by engaging in "marital infidelity, pre-marital sex and flirting", or getting raped [32] The Jordanian Penal Code today still includes provisions that excuse honor crimes by granting the perpetrator leniency in punishment. Many of these killings go unreported, but each year thousands of women are killed by family members in order to "restore honor." [32] Honor killings occur across the Middle East and around the world. The United Nations Commission on Human Rights reports of honor killings in Bangladesh, Great Britain, Brazil, Ecuador, Egypt, India, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Pakistan, Morocco, Sweden, Turkey, and Uganda expose that this practice "goes across cultures and across religions." [32]

It has been difficult to change legislation (particularly Article 340 of the Jordanian Penal Code) because violence against women has traditionally been considered a "private matter" rather than the "responsibility of the state." [33] In fact, there has been a nationwide women's human rights campaign, supported by King Abullah and Queen Rania, to modify Article 340, which grants perpetrators of honor killings leniency in Jordanian courts [34]

In April 2010, a 33-year-old man was charged with "hammering his wife to death and dumping her body on the highway leading to the Queen Alia International Airport". The husband easily confessed to murdering his wife in order to defend his honor, as she had been out meeting a male friend without his permission. "There are about 12 honor crime cases every year in Jordan," said Diana Shalabi, director of the complaint office at the Jordanian National Commission for Women. "However," she said, "many crimes involving women are seen as honor killings and should be called regular crimes instead." [28]