Rob wrote:Good faith disagreement about the degree of socialism we should have is precisely what I think we should have. The people who shout “socialism bad!” are not doing the debate service, in my opinion. Of course sometimes the government has to take something over, because the market or capitalist just can’t do it - like provide health insurance for retired people. It doesn’t make you a socialist to agree with it, but it’s not really making you a capitalist either. Sometimes the government is the answer. Not always the problem, sometimes the solution. Maybe I’m wrong to use the term socialism this way but it’s how I’ve come to see it, and the old way doesn’t seem to hold much value to me, other than telling me what side you’re on.
Edit - by “what side you’re on” I didn’t mean you, 4/5. Just mean some people seem open to other having a different interpretation (like you) and some don’t.
So I think we're expressing ourselves in opposite ways but kind of agree on the end result. My inclination is to say "that's not socialism!" to basically everything you're calling socialism. I would call those things public goods, or welfare or social safety nets. When I say that, I'm pointing out that those things aren't in conflict with having a market (capitalist if you prefer) economy. I don't think it's public education/safety net OR markets, I think you can have both in a very free market nation. Ironically, much like Bernie supporters I point to the Scandinavian/ Northern European nations as examples of what I'm talking about: countries with thriving markets with robust social safety nets.
Re: Election 2020
Posted: Tue November 10, 2020 5:51 pm
by macphisto
Re: Election 2020
Posted: Tue November 10, 2020 5:56 pm
by Let's all laugh at Rangers
Wagwan with the House election? The BBC site has been saying for days now that the Dems have won exactly half the seats.
Re: Election 2020
Posted: Tue November 10, 2020 5:57 pm
by VinylGuy
Mac, cmon he lost.
Re: Election 2020
Posted: Tue November 10, 2020 5:59 pm
by macphisto
VinylGuy wrote:Mac, cmon he lost.
Let's make sure of that.
Re: Election 2020
Posted: Tue November 10, 2020 6:22 pm
by Captain Termite
macphisto wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:Mac, cmon he lost.
Let's make sure of that.
Should we have made sure the Emmy award wasn't rigged against the Apprentice when Trump said it was?
What about the 2016 primary (or primaries) that he said was rigged against him?
Or the 2016 popular vote that he said was rigged?
I see a pattern and zero credibility
April 2016: “Apparently, when anyone votes against him, it’s an act of theft,” (Ted) Cruz said.
I'm too discouraged to look up what Cruz is saying now.
Re: Election 2020
Posted: Tue November 10, 2020 6:24 pm
by spike
macphisto, what are you scared of? this country’s a goddamn mess right now and Trump shoulders most of the blame. his leadership is wholly ineffective. why not try something different?
Re: Election 2020
Posted: Tue November 10, 2020 6:27 pm
by digster
I suppose a fitting end to this story is the country falling ass backwards into a crisis because the GOP doesn't want to make Daddy angrier than he already is.
Re: Election 2020
Posted: Tue November 10, 2020 6:29 pm
by wease
spike wrote:macphisto, what are you scared of? this country’s a goddamn mess right now and Trump shoulders most of the blame. his leadership is wholly ineffective. why not try something different?
Macphisto (along with the other Trumpublicans) don’t think the country’s a mess and think it’s better than it’s ever been.
Re: Election 2020
Posted: Tue November 10, 2020 6:30 pm
by Mickey
I think it's actually quite reasonable to make sure there weren't 48k cases of fraudulent ballots in PA. Also that there weren't 12k such cases in Georgia and 15k in Arizona. Just asking reasonable questions about the possibility of 75k fraudulent votes coordinated across three states, one of them heavily Republican, in an election against a historically unpopular President running on a dogshit economy during a global pandemic.
Re: Election 2020
Posted: Tue November 10, 2020 6:33 pm
by Mickey
I will admit, though, that the pirate Congressman is right: Trump supporters, facing a loss, solely took to the courts. They didn't have anything to do with threats of vigilante violence. They definitely didn't make posts in other threads here about how good the right is at violence, asking others to "fuck around and find out (FAAFO)."
Re: Election 2020
Posted: Tue November 10, 2020 6:38 pm
by Strat
Do republicans think the senate and house votes are fraudulent too or are they fine with those? I mean, being on the same ballot and all you would think they'd be calling to investigate those as well.
Oh wait....yea....they don't give a shit.
Re: Election 2020
Posted: Tue November 10, 2020 6:39 pm
by Orpheus
Burt told me white supremacist terror doesn't exist, and I'm sure he's a good source, so I'm good!
