Red Mosquito

Rob wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

The Argonaut wrote:Mickey's lens which he reads everything through is is "class". Just say something mean about rich people and he'll understand

yep, he's a class reductionist

Common (and better) ideology than what we got during/after the Reagan era.

sure, that's true; it's still inadequate though

Jorge wrote:Maybe what Joe meant was "I trust you folks can keep this thread poppin' without my help"

He did just PM with me a threat to perma-ban me if I didn't stop trying to distract you guys with Oasis lyrics. I think he loves the chaos, the cruelty, the destruction. He's a bad man!

Ms Harmless wrote:

Strat wrote:I ask you, have any of the victims in this incident mentioned anything about race? no. They haven't.

yes

Jada has commented on stigma against Black hair in at least one article I've read; she has talked about growing up as a child with the stigma as well as having to exist with it in the professional world

This has already been acknowledged, but in this specific case, there's no real evidence it was race based. Maybe it was insensitive, but not racist.

Rob wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Strat wrote:I ask you, have any of the victims in this incident mentioned anything about race? no. They haven't.

yes

Jada has commented on stigma against Black hair in at least one article I've read; she has talked about growing up as a child with the stigma as well as having to exist with it in the professional world

This has already been acknowledged, but in this specific case, there's no real evidence it was race based. Maybe it was insensitive, but not racist.

Correct. She, nor will, have mentioned anything about this incident being race related. White people have injected that because that is what white people like to do to once again make it about them.

In my humble opinion. And its dangerous and frankly exhausting.

In any case, i certainly am exhausted. Im gonna go listen to the new chili peps and join trag over there now!

Rob wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Strat wrote:I ask you, have any of the victims in this incident mentioned anything about race? no. They haven't.

yes

Jada has commented on stigma against Black hair in at least one article I've read; she has talked about growing up as a child with the stigma as well as having to exist with it in the professional world

This has already been acknowledged, but in this specific case, there's no real evidence it was race based. Maybe it was insensitive, but not racist.

if you don't consider Jada's word (as the victim) "evidence", then fine; but I literally answered the suggestion that nothing has been said to make it about race; short of The Academy saying "it was about race", that's what we have, and it isn't "nothing"

I just don't wait for organisational committees to tell me what things are about

I'm still stuck on the "white comedians deserve to be slapped" comment

Harmless, what if everyone had such utter confidence in their beliefs, that when challenged, they would go to such lengths as to physically attack a person? Can you imagine such a world? Do you see how such a worldview is not something anyone should aspire to? What if the opposite were true, and, again, retreading familiar territory, people gave each other the benefit of the doubt before lashing out? What if intentions do actually matter, and words themselves actually do not have any power? What if Chris Rock is a nice guy, just doing his job by making people laugh, the way they want to laugh? Why can't you just say it's not my kind of humor because it personally offends me, but I understand BILLIONS of people enjoy it, and walk away?

Strat wrote:

Rob wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Strat wrote:I ask you, have any of the victims in this incident mentioned anything about race? no. They haven't.

yes

Jada has commented on stigma against Black hair in at least one article I've read; she has talked about growing up as a child with the stigma as well as having to exist with it in the professional world

This has already been acknowledged, but in this specific case, there's no real evidence it was race based. Maybe it was insensitive, but not racist.

Correct. She, nor will, have mentioned anything about this incident being race related. White people have injected that because that is what white people like to do to once again make it about them.

In my humble opinion. And its dangerous and frankly exhausting.

On twitter the majority of people I have seen talking about race in regards to this incident (for/against Smith or for/against Rock), have been black.

Ms Harmless wrote:

Rob wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Strat wrote:I ask you, have any of the victims in this incident mentioned anything about race? no. They haven't.

yes

Jada has commented on stigma against Black hair in at least one article I've read; she has talked about growing up as a child with the stigma as well as having to exist with it in the professional world

This has already been acknowledged, but in this specific case, there's no real evidence it was race based. Maybe it was insensitive, but not racist.

if you don't consider Jada's word (as the victim) "evidence", then fine; but I literally answered the suggestion that nothing has been said to make it about race; short of The Academy saying "it was about race", that's what we have, and it isn't "nothing"

just because you feel it, doesn't mean it's there... just because you feel it, doesn't mean it's there...

tree_ wrote:I'm still stuck on the "white comedians deserve to be slapped" comment

Harmless, what if everyone had such utter confidence in their beliefs, that when challenged, they would go to such lengths as to physically attack a person? Can you imagine such a world? Do you see how such a worldview is not something anyone should aspire to? What if the opposite were true, and, again, retreading familiar territory, people gave each other the benefit of the doubt before lashing out? What if intentions do actually matter, and words themselves actually do not have any power? What if Chris Rock is a nice guy, just doing his job by making people laugh, the way they want to laugh? Why can't you just say it's not my kind of humor because it personally offends me, but I understand BILLIONS of people enjoy it, and walk away?

You walk away, tree

Ms Harmless wrote:

Rob wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Strat wrote:I ask you, have any of the victims in this incident mentioned anything about race? no. They haven't.

yes

Jada has commented on stigma against Black hair in at least one article I've read; she has talked about growing up as a child with the stigma as well as having to exist with it in the professional world

This has already been acknowledged, but in this specific case, there's no real evidence it was race based. Maybe it was insensitive, but not racist.

if you don't consider Jada's word (as the victim) "evidence", then fine; but I literally answered the suggestion that nothing has been said to make it about race; short of The Academy saying "it was about race", that's what we have, and it isn't "nothing"

I'm trying to respect all opinions, but you're pointing to (possible evidence of) insensitivity, not racism. Do you really believe Chris Rock was making a joke about the hairstyles of black women, or was it about her hair specifically and how it reminded him of GI Jane?

She's saying intentions do not matter. It is how it made her feel that matters. If she felt as though it were racism, then so be it.

tree_ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Rob wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Strat wrote:I ask you, have any of the victims in this incident mentioned anything about race? no. They haven't.

yes

Jada has commented on stigma against Black hair in at least one article I've read; she has talked about growing up as a child with the stigma as well as having to exist with it in the professional world

This has already been acknowledged, but in this specific case, there's no real evidence it was race based. Maybe it was insensitive, but not racist.

if you don't consider Jada's word (as the victim) "evidence", then fine; but I literally answered the suggestion that nothing has been said to make it about race; short of The Academy saying "it was about race", that's what we have, and it isn't "nothing"

just because you feel it, doesn't mean it's there... just because you feel it, doesn't mean it's there...

have you ever pointed that lens at yourself? of course not, because your position isn't about feelings but objective truth

tree_ wrote:I'm still stuck on the "white comedians deserve to be slapped" comment

Harmless, what if everyone had such utter confidence in their beliefs, that when challenged, they would go to such lengths as to physically attack a person? Can you imagine such a world? Do you see how such a worldview is not something anyone should aspire to? What if the opposite were true, and, again, retreading familiar territory, people gave each other the benefit of the doubt before lashing out? What if intentions do actually matter, and words themselves actually do not have any power? What if Chris Rock is a nice guy, just doing his job by making people laugh, the way they want to laugh? Why can't you just say it's not my kind of humor because it personally offends me, but I understand BILLIONS of people enjoy it, and walk away?

how are you both defining intentions?

Ms Harmless wrote:

tree_ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Rob wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Strat wrote:I ask you, have any of the victims in this incident mentioned anything about race? no. They haven't.

yes

Jada has commented on stigma against Black hair in at least one article I've read; she has talked about growing up as a child with the stigma as well as having to exist with it in the professional world

This has already been acknowledged, but in this specific case, there's no real evidence it was race based. Maybe it was insensitive, but not racist.

if you don't consider Jada's word (as the victim) "evidence", then fine; but I literally answered the suggestion that nothing has been said to make it about race; short of The Academy saying "it was about race", that's what we have, and it isn't "nothing"

just because you feel it, doesn't mean it's there... just because you feel it, doesn't mean it's there...

have you ever pointed that lens at yourself? of course not, because your position isn't about feelings but objective truth

I am always pointing that lens at myself. Yes, feelings are not a reliable barometer by which one should measure reality.

Ms Harmless wrote:I just don't wait for organisational committees to tell me what things are about

are you seeing this happen here or
elsewhere?

I define intention the dictionary way... don't think we're confused about that

I actually said, somewhere in this mess, that I don't think a conflict between two (or three) Black people can be called "racism"

but Chris Rock is a Black man, and Jada is a Black woman; Black women walk through the world with some more pronounced, unique and additional issues than Black men, especially around their hair, and Chris knew this as a Black man, and chose to make the joke anyway

the joke was racially charged, and insensitive because it carried issues of race; that is not directly the same as "racist", but to say it's not about race when we have Jada's words is gargantuanly dumb

Malloy wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I just don't wait for organisational committees to tell me what things are about

are you seeing this happen here or
elsewhere?

I felt it was implied in the fact that Jada has talked about issues of race and hair in articles since it happened, but her feelings don't matter and we're waiting for "additional evidence"; it's not about race until... I don't even know