Red Mosquito

track11 wrote:Did you know that Judaism supports abysmal, 4th class treatment of women? It's true! Look at all the Orthodox (that means CLOSEST TO THE TRUE RELIGION, right?) Jews where the women have basically no rights AND have to actually work to bring in money because the man's only purpose is to study the Torah, which is the most noble job (and can only be done by a man) job in the world!

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ ... ily_rights

Marriage[edit]

Jordanian husbands determine their wives’ abilities to employ their constitutionally guaranteed rights to work and other public activities. Jordanian legislation and culture suggests that men have a certain control over their wives to mediate their interaction with the public. Men expect their wives to be obedient because they work in order to support the family financially.[22] Some amendments postpone this “ownership” for young girls. For example, the Jordanian Parliament increased the legal age of marriage to 18 for both boys and girls, as the previous law set the legal age for marriage at 16 for boys and 15 for girls, which promoted early marriages and subsequent school drop out for married girls.[5]

Divorce[edit]

Divorce law is based almost entirely on Islamic Shari'a law, which is considered "unquestionable authority." [27] Variations in interpretation and application, however, do exist among Islamic courts across the Middle East. Divorces in Jordan, in particular, often ignore women’s rights and leave women with nothing if they are not supported by their families. In recent years, the government has worked to fix this problem by altering the judicial system. For example, "a new law has been drafted to force men to pay alimony for three years instead of six months, which was previously the case.” [27] Because men are free to divorce and stop supporting their wives if they are "disobedient," another law created an obligatory fund for divorced women, guaranteeing them a settlement from their ex-husband.[28]

Children[edit]

The father was technically responsible for the children's property, maintenance and education while the mother was responsible for the "physical care and nurturing" of the children.[29] While the father was considered the "natural guardian", if the parents were divorced the mother would take custody.[30] Today, however, children "belong" to both parents but the mother generally stays home to raise the children.

Property[edit]

While studies of women and their property rights evidence that Islamic courts have "upheld women's rights to property," women in Jordan legally own and inherit less than their male relatives do.[31] Throughout history and still today, when women have owned and inherited property, they have been frequently and intensely pressured to give up their land to male family members.[28] As a result, less than four percent of all property in Jordan is owned by women.[31]

Honor killings[edit]

Honor crimes are acts of violence committed by family members against women who are perceived to have shamed the family in some way. Women can "shame" their family by engaging in "marital infidelity, pre-marital sex and flirting", or getting raped [32] The Jordanian Penal Code today still includes provisions that excuse honor crimes by granting the perpetrator leniency in punishment. Many of these killings go unreported, but each year thousands of women are killed by family members in order to "restore honor." [32] Honor killings occur across the Middle East and around the world. The United Nations Commission on Human Rights reports of honor killings in Bangladesh, Great Britain, Brazil, Ecuador, Egypt, India, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Pakistan, Morocco, Sweden, Turkey, and Uganda expose that this practice "goes across cultures and across religions." [32]

It has been difficult to change legislation (particularly Article 340 of the Jordanian Penal Code) because violence against women has traditionally been considered a "private matter" rather than the "responsibility of the state." [33] In fact, there has been a nationwide women's human rights campaign, supported by King Abullah and Queen Rania, to modify Article 340, which grants perpetrators of honor killings leniency in Jordanian courts [34]

In April 2010, a 33-year-old man was charged with "hammering his wife to death and dumping her body on the highway leading to the Queen Alia International Airport". The husband easily confessed to murdering his wife in order to defend his honor, as she had been out meeting a male friend without his permission. "There are about 12 honor crime cases every year in Jordan," said Diana Shalabi, director of the complaint office at the Jordanian National Commission for Women. "However," she said, "many crimes involving women are seen as honor killings and should be called regular crimes instead." [28]

track11 wrote:You've got me convinced! Lots of swearing and citing Malala does derive the precise conclusion that women are treated as scum in the Middle East, and among Muslims in general.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

stip wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

stip wrote:

jwfocker wrote:WTF. You have to be willfully ignorant or just fucking stupid to think that shit is rosey for women in the middle east. Exhausting to hear such idiocy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Women are getting shot for speaking out about the need for education but yeah they have it better.

That point aside, his larger reminder that there are many different variants of Islam, and that it's not a monolithic religion, is something worth remembering

It's also worth remembering that all of those variants are still bullshit.

There's nothing quite like the relentlessly dogmatic crusade against other people's dogmatism

Oh lord, so now we're going to call it "dogmatic" to say claims of supernatural beings are "bullshit?" Fuck.

stip wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

stip wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

stip wrote:

jwfocker wrote:WTF. You have to be willfully ignorant or just fucking stupid to think that shit is rosey for women in the middle east. Exhausting to hear such idiocy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Women are getting shot for speaking out about the need for education but yeah they have it better.

That point aside, his larger reminder that there are many different variants of Islam, and that it's not a monolithic religion, is something worth remembering

It's also worth remembering that all of those variants are still bullshit.

There's nothing quite like the relentlessly dogmatic crusade against other people's dogmatism

Oh lord, so now we're going to call it "dogmatic" to say claims of supernatural beings are "bullshit?" Fuck.

That wasn't the point he was making and I presume you know that. He was simply saying that we would not condem all Christians for the Westboro Baptist Church not a joke site and should maybe apply a similar perspective to a religion with many different sects and hundreds of millions of followers across almost every culture and country in the world - each influenced by the region they find themselves in.

track11 wrote:And the ideologies amongst different Muslims in different countries in different scenarios are vastly different. So why do I not see that nuance in your arguments?

LoathedVermin72 wrote: Some people might believe Russell's Teapot is blue while others believe it is purple,

Spoiler: show

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote: Some people might believe Russell's Teapot is blue while others believe it is purple,

Spoiler: show

LoathedVermin72 wrote:.

4/5 wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:.

Can you state your basic position in like two sentences? I only read the last few pages so all I see is you saying what you're not saying. Maybe a quick reset would be helpful.

@SkitchP wrote:

4/5 wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:.

Can you state your basic position in like two sentences? I only read the last few pages so all I see is you saying what you're not saying. Maybe a quick reset would be helpful.

Did you just ban L_V?

4/5 wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:

4/5 wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:.

Can you state your basic position in like two sentences? I only read the last few pages so all I see is you saying what you're not saying. Maybe a quick reset would be helpful.

Did you just ban L_V?

Not until Ramadan.

4/5 wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:.

Can you state your basic position in like two sentences? I only read the last few pages so all I see is you saying what you're not saying. Maybe a quick reset would be helpful.